Are specific gages listed on PFMEA?

M

Mueller Time

#1
I have a customer that is stating that it is required that specific gages and inspection methods must be listed in the Current Control column on our PFMEA. This is something that we normally handle on our Control Plans. Our PFMEA gives the inspection frequencies (which also match with our Control Plans) but we haven't had this request yet. I discussed it with a few of my other customers and they do not want that info on the PFMEA and say it is better suited on a Control Plan.

I haven't been preparing PFMEAs that long and was wondering whether this was a normal request or not? Obviously I need to keep my customers happy, but they are new to the PFMEA game also so I may be able to persuade them to drop their request if I can back it up.

Any help would be great!
 
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bobdoering

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#2
That is a ridiculous request. :bonk:

Specific gages and inspection frequencies are a function of the control plan. Not only that, putting them on both increases the opportunity of not having them match if you update one, allowing an auditor to snag you in document control.

They are wrong, but they do send you checks - you you may have to pick your battles on that one. Is it worth the argument and the taste it will leave in their mouth? Might want to have them look at the examples in the AIAG FMEA book.

You know how customers love to be told they are wrong.:cool:
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
I agree with Bob. :yes:

Yes, talk to the Customer, but do not go there empty-handed. Tell them in a professional manner what your company's approach is in developing PFMEA's and Control Plans.

In your conversations and/or emails, make appropriate references to the AIAG FMEA manual 4th Ed. Conclude by saying: "This is our approach to developing FMEA's and Control Plans and is accepted by our other Customers, would that be acceptable to you too?" Make sure though that you have a rock-solid PFMEA, not some fluff-type document that's more a (RPN) numbers game record.;)

You'd be surprised how well this works.

Keep in mind that if you don't offer something such as a valid alternative approach to the Customer, they will tell you what to do, and you may not like it.

Hope this helps.

Stijloor.
 
R

Roger Thorpe - 2008

#4
Hi,

I only joined this forum yesterday but have been an FMEA consultant to the automotive sector for 13 years. I agree in the main with the comments above, in as much as if your FMEA is sound froma methodology view point and the content is strong, then few customers will complain. If they are not happy with the content their default is to insist 'do it our way'. Although I must say there are some occations when they don't understand 'their way'.

However, there is always a but, here it is, the expectation is that what ever you write word for word in your respective controls columns on the FMEA will appear word for word on the control plan in the control method column. The reason for this is simple, the controls you have declared in the FMEA must reach the shop floor via the control plan, if they're missing this will not happen and you will get a non-conformance. Additional information about that control, such as the gauge number, R & R details and frequency should be on the control plan as expected.

With regard to the risk of having data which can get out of step, this is just one aspect of that. It is for this reason I recommend the use a suitable software package which synchronises the data and only needs you to enter it once. It is for this reason 6 years ago I developed an excel based application which also includes the process flow. I use this in the workshops I conduct with my clients. It is a fact that you can solve one problem and create another, take care!

I hope this helps,

Roger
 
A

achorste

#5
Just as an extra point - one of our customers (the guys from the FDA / 13485 forums may recognise this) has enforced a combined FMEA / Control Plan on us called a Dynamic Control Plan.

This includes plant used, contact materials, risk assessments (FMEA style), control / inspection methods and others all in one document split by processes.

This would eliminate the risk of missing doc updates etc - may be a compromise for you both?
 
R

Roger Thorpe - 2008

#6
Hi,

Just a note on Dynamic Control Planning. If it is of interest I am a Ford acredited facilitator for DCP and have been active in its deployment for the last 8 years. Its an excellant method when used correctly, although there is a problem with the source documentation which if followed to the letter doesn't work.

Any questions please get in touch, oh by the way for all my clients I provide DCP but call it FMEA so as not to confuse, they are really pleased with results.

Hope this helps,

Roger
 
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