Are there any requirements in TS 16949 that pertains to business planning?

[vanputten]

Hello Stijoor:

How would an organization meet the requirements of 5.4.1.1 and 5.6.1.1 without a Business Plan?

Regards,

Dirk

 

[Jim Wynne]

Hello Stijoor:

How would an organization meet the requirements of 5.4.1.1 and 5.6.1.1 without a Business Plan?

Regards,

Dirk

1. Define "business plan."
2. Provide a citation to the standard that supports your definition.

 

[ctblalock]

1. Define "business plan."
2. Provide a citation to the standard that supports your definition.

Thanks Jim. Your concise response echos my original question, what if the quality objectives ARE the business plan?

Top mgt of our organization (privately owned) has stated that these six quality objectives represent the business plan for our facility:

1. ACHIEVE "FIRST THRU QUALITY" GOALS
2. ACHIEVE PRODUCTION GOALS FOR EACH AREA
3. 100% ON TIME DELVERY OF CUSTOMER ORDERS
4. MAINTAIN AN EFFECTIVE, EFFICIENT AND RECOGNIZED QUALITY MGT SYSTEM
5. MAINTAIN AN ACTIVE AND EFFECTIVE TRAINING PROGRAM
6. DEVELOP A CULTURE THAT FOSTERS EMPLOYEE PARTICIPATION AND TEAMWORK

If this is inadequate then what more is required?
OR, as Jim says, Define "business plan" and provide a citation to the standard that supports your definition.
PLEASE.

 

[vanputten]

An orgainzation can define "Buisness plan" any way they want. Never did I say what a business plan is or what it should contain. If an organization wants to call their quality plan a business plan, great. But again, to meet 5.4.1.1 and 5.6.1.1 the organziation must have something that acts as the business plan or is refered to as the business plan. Those clauses don't refer to a quality plan, they refer to a business plan.

A quality plan is not necessarily a business plan and vice versa. They can be the same thing. If they are the same thing, then don't you have something that is acting as the business plan?

I think my point was missed based on the responses. How does a company meet 5.4.1.1 and 5.6.1.1 without anything that is understood to be a business plan no matter what it is called?

My personal opinion is that a quality plan is much more specific than a business plan. My opinion. I don't think most quality plans discuss strategic issues, marketing, business forecasts, expected revenues, etc.

Maybe the writers used the term "business plan" in the clauses becasue they couldn't think of the term quality plan or they don't understand the terms quality plan and business plan? Maybe the use of "business plan" was inadvertent or a mistake?

Check out ISO 10005:2005 Quality management - Guidelines on quality plans. If we accept the guidance from ISO 10005, then quality plans and business plans really are not the same thing.

Define it how you want and enjoy.

Regards,

Dirk

 

[anandqgp]

Dear friends all,

I have gone through all the views including good ones the like of Mr Scot and others. Good reading, I must say.

I have been working as a consultant for TS for the past 3 years and am really pained to see that we are yet to take any of the standard very seriously and in a way not taking the work of 140 odd professionals across the world. This is evident from the present example too, where even when the standard is specific in saying, "Quality Objectives and Measurements that shall be included in the Business Plan". May be we dont know or not willing to know the interpretation of word "SHALL" given in the ISO Standards. Consultants ! Pity for us. God help us.

Now, First for believers in the values of TS: Just follow the standard. Standard says "Shall be included in Business Plan". Prepare a Business Plan.

Support for TS Believers: Gentlemen, shouldn't we be thankful to TS Standard that it has decided to become specific to prepare a business plan since TS has already observed that we did not do so when implementing the ISO 9001:2000 since it was not mentioned. See how bookish we are, since it is not mentioned in Standard, even it something is useful we decide to ignore it. To give an example, when ISO standard was revised in the year 2000, it was mentioned that there are SIX mandatory Procedures and what was the result...most consultants were quick to offload a hoard of useful procedures which even though were working a guideline or System for that company.

Here too, any company MUST prepare a Business plan since it will work to give direction to the company and in that process it will generate accountability in the HODs of the company.

And I dont know, why should we hate business plan when it is meant to generate money for the company. So use this to ensure growth for the company and indirectly ensure your growth as a consultant or a member of the company.

When preparing a Business Plan, dont make it so HIFI to make it an unworkable document. Be business like use SMART Principles but do include Long Term and short Term GOALS coupled with good communication across the company to convert the employees into willing and serious partners in progress of company

Should anyone want more information on this subject, you are more than welcome

HS Anand
Quality Growth Professionals
919814245348

 

[vanputten]

Hello HS Anand:

Your post is very interesting to me. Thank you for writing.

To add to you line of thinking, I believe the inclusion of the referenc to a busienss plan is to tie the quality plan goals with the Aim of the organziation. The Business Plan sets the overall Aim of the organization. It make sense then that the intent / goal / output of a quality plan supports the overall Aim of the company.

I agree that we should embrace the inclusion of the reference to a Business Plan in TS. As quality professionals, we should thank the writers of TS for trying to bring quality plans inline with the Business Plan. I here often that we all should be working towards a Business Management System. Here is one item that will help in that effort.

By the way, what are "HOD's" and "HIFI?"

Thank you,

Dirk

 

[anandqgp]

Dear Dirk

You couldn't be more right. Absolutely ! The quality plans must serve the purpose of business that is highlighted in a Business Plan. You seem to be down to earth. God bless you for serving the TS loving society.

HOD is abbreviation for Head of Department and HIFI stands for BUZZ or Tall-worded, Elegantly worded but non-implementable Business Plan.

Looking for more interaction with a person like you.

Sincerely yours

HS Anand

 

[k_srinivasan66]

Dear Mr.Anand,
Iam also a consultant working for the past 2 years and would like to throw focus on Business plan.
Since there is no specific requirement for Business plan as was in QS9000, clients are not interested in making a business plan and whatever templates we may give and hence it is difficult to convince.
The auditors ask fior long term and short term business plan which deos not come in any part of the standard. I think we as consultants cannot do too much if the conmpany is not interested in making a business plan since we are unable to show them how a business plan model should be of?

 

[vanputten]

How does one complete the requirements of 5.4.1.1 in TS 16949 without a Business Plan?

No requirement? There is no requirment for Business Planning in the sense that there are no requiremnts for the process of creating a Business Plan. Certianly there are requirements for planning certain aspects of the business. I got 114 references to the word "Plan" when I searched TS 16949.

I don't see how 5.4.1.1 can be read to NOT require a Business Plan.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

How does one complete the requirements of 5.4.1.1 in TS 16949 without a Business Plan?

No requirement? There is no requirment for Business Planning in the sense that there are no requiremnts for the process of creating a Business Plan. Certianly there are requirements for planning certain aspects of the business. I got 114 references to the word "Plan" when I searched TS 16949.

I don't see how 5.4.1.1 can be read to NOT require a Business Plan.

I agree... It flat out says so.