Are Tooling Drawings Controlled Documents? Thousands of drawings!

[Ken11]

Thanks to everyone so far for the replies.
The tooling in question are the dies to manufacture the customer’s product. We are a “roll forming” shop so each job has many dies or die sets involved to shape and cut the product. Many jobs have additional secondary die stamping operations. Some of the jobs the tooling has been paid for by the customer and some dies are our property.

Yes there are two questions. From an ISO point of view is document control required of these drawings and if so we have to find and decide on the best way for us.

Thanks

 

[ScottK]

Thanks to everyone so far for the replies.
The tooling in question are the dies to manufacture the customer’s product. We are a “roll forming” shop so each job has many dies or die sets involved to shape and cut the product. Many jobs have additional secondary die stamping operations. Some of the jobs the tooling has been paid for by the customer and some dies are our property.

Yes there are two questions. From an ISO point of view is document control required of these drawings and if so we have to find and decide on the best way for us.

Thanks

4.2.1 g - "documents needed by the organization to ensure the effective planning, operation, and control of its processes"

Do you use these drawings to set up your machines?
Do you use these drawings to inspect finished goods?
Do you use these drawings to plan for materials usage, scheduling and committment dates?

If yes to any of these, then they should probably be controlled.

 

[JRKH]

Thanks to everyone so far for the replies.
The tooling in question are the dies to manufacture the customer’s product. We are a “roll forming” shop so each job has many dies or die sets involved to shape and cut the product. Many jobs have additional secondary die stamping operations. Some of the jobs the tooling has been paid for by the customer and some dies are our property.

Yes there are two questions. From an ISO point of view is document control required of these drawings and if so we have to find and decide on the best way for us.

Thanks

Regardless of the requirement in ISO, I don't think there is any question in your case that these drawings need to be controlled.
Since the drawings in question are for dies already in use and proofed, I would say don't go back and create some need review them imediately. As the dies need repair or modification, then pull the drawings and review them.

If the drawings are stored on a database create a "Grandfathered" folder and store all existing drawings there. Limit access to this folder to only a couple of designers. As drawings are pulled from here and reviewed, store them in a new folder.

All the existing tooling is also "Grandfathered" until such time as it is repaired, then it can be somehow identified as having been certified and controlled under the new system.

Hope this helps

James

 

[alekra]

Hi to All !

Another suggestion is keeping only the electronic database (intranet, or software for managing documents in general) as controlled. In the company I work for, the templates for drawing have the words in the bottom: "Printed coppies are uncontrolled".

So, the access is not forbidden, only the last version can be accessed by employess and, when printed, they are not controlled.

Regards!!!

 

[vanputten]

Ken11:

What is "document control?" How does yor organizaiton define it?

Your drawing must already be controlled. Are you saying that if you have 2 different drawings for the same tool, you cannot tell the 2 apart except for the content? There is no ledger block in the bottom right corner giving dimensions, revision, date, etc.?

They must alrady be "controlled" in some way.

Learn what documnet control is, why you have it, before you ask if the drawings need to be controlled.

I bet they already are and you have nothing to do. Ask the tooling people how they tell the drawings apart. Ask them if they have a new and old drawing for the same tool. Ask them how they tell the old from the new.

Then read 4.2.3 and apply the required concepts to your drawings and the control over them. Then go to the ISO/TC 176 website and read the supporting info on Document Control.

Regards,

Dirk

 

[Esthyl - 2010]

Ya... there are so many tooling drawings! I am now headache with controlling them. I am suppose to register them to Document Master List and give each drawing a document number, but there are too many! Also, it shouldn't has too many stamps on the drawings, else it will confused those who are reading them.

JRKH's idea is really brilliant--> Something we did here with old customer drawings was to take the file cabinets of old drawings and label them uncontrolled. Any time a drawing was pulled for a job it had to be verified as correct before use and stamped. It was then put into a file cabinet marked as controlled.[/B] However, I have a problem that all the drawings are now kept in the file according to the project, taking few out will mess up the arrangement.

Ken11, have you already manage to control the tooling drawings effectively? I wish to get some idea to work on mine.

 

[bobdoering]

Re: Tooling drawings, are they controlled documents? Thousands of drawings!

I have a general rule about controlling documents - if a document is subject to change and someone getting a wrong version could cause a problem - control it. Tooling drawings fall into that category I believe.

I agree. In auditing, the question is always "How do you know?" So, without control, how do you know you have the correct revision? How do you know the copy you have was a working revision copy that happened to be rejected for a good reason - but not thrown out? There is a myriad of reasons that the wrong rev document can show up - and with that risk, what other technique can prevent their use? Can the wrong rev tooling affect the quality of the part? Sure. So, it is a "quality document" that needs control. And, where did the original go? Whoops, we lost it - no one knows, not "checked out". Now what? So many scenarios...which is why they came up with the standard! Trust me, however, I feel your pain!

 

[JaneB]

Re: Tooling drawings, are they controlled documents? Thousands of drawings!

Here's what can happen if you don't control them (true story alas)

You don't know which version is the 'right' one
You can't make the same product to the same dimensions consistently
Your customers get seriously unhappy because of the variations in product
You spend lots of time fixing things one by one because it doesn't work properly
You don't actually know exactly which drawing is for which thing
For any given sale, you can't actually be sure exactly what you sold them because you can't actually track down what the exact dimensions were for the product(s) sold
You lose money
You lose sales
You lose customers
Your staff develop an entrenched culture of 'just get it out the door, never mind what it's like'

I could go on... but I think you get the drift.

 

[fireonce]

In my opinion,iit's unnecessary to do as that,but it should be saved.

 

[Ken11]

Hello Everyone,

Thanks again for all the advice and ideas.

We decided to move all drawings into “historical” directory of files & folders in the computer system. As existing drawings are needed they are opened, reviewed by Engineering and released with a new revision level noting the review. If the drawing did not have an acceptable drawing number or no revision history one is started, again documenting the engineering review and these drawings are then placed in a “current” directory.

One of our major problems was the fact that for each customer job there were so many individual pieces for many of the dies, so many dies for the job and lots of drawings with several component die parts on the drawings. Then, as time pasted and another customer job came in to the plant, we would compound the problem by using the designs for some of the component pieces from earlier job dies on the new job. However we might discover that some changes needed to be made to the component for it to work or fit correctly. New drawings were not necessarily made, and adequate documentation of changes was not always done over the years. The long term result was all the confusion and costs you could imagine.

This is the solution we decided on and the help of fellow covers was great. We will use our other procedures such as internal quality concerns, cost of quality, CA/PA, etc. to monitor and catch items we will invariably miss. Sorry, I know this is a long post. I think this will be a workable, real world solution for us. Please let me know what you guys think.