Are two separate procedures required for Corrective action and preventive actions

S

selena15

#11
hi cove
agreed totaly with you stiljoor
in that time, the issue was clearly one NC which require one CA, but his clarification was that issue need CA but also to put as PA would be good in order to avoid it in the future.

i was astonished but he reply with confident that this is very common to attribut a C&PA to one unique issue.

he looks as he wasn't confident that the solution that he gave to the NC would give corrective and permanent action, aren't you agree with me ?

did ever one of you got this fact? i mean , to find out one NC, which not depending of everything that we can control and in these case even you correct it, you expect to notify it again. ? sorry for my special english :bonk:
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#12
hi cove
agreed totaly with you stiljoor
in that time, the issue was clearly one NC which require one CA, but his clarification was that issue need CA but also to put as PA would be good in order to avoid it in the future.

i was astonished but he reply with confident that this is very common to attribut a C&PA to one unique issue.

he looks as he wasn't confident that the solution that he gave to the NC would give corrective and permanent action, aren't you agree with me ?

did ever one of you got this fact? i mean , to find out one NC, which not depending of everything that we can control and in these case even you correct it, you expect to notify it again. ? sorry for my special english :bonk:
Selena,

That's an issue that comes up regularly. In the corrective action process, you need to implement actions to prevent the nonconformity from happening again. Those actions are many times misinterpreted as (real) preventive action as per clause 8.5.3.

Here is a simple explanation: Any action you take associated with something that has ocurred (nonconformity) is per definition Corrective Action. It's all reactive work. Simple as that.

Stijloor.
 
S

selena15

#13
once again agreed
sorry if i' insisting, but if i got you right, even we need to implement this preventive action during the corrective action process, it is nammed also corrective action ; no need to call one action " Corrective & prenvetive one" in the same time.

is it okay ?
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#14
once again agreed
sorry if i' insisting, but if i got you right, even we need to implement this preventive action during the corrective action process, it is nammed also corrective action ; no need to call one action " Corrective & prenvetive one" in the same time.

is it okay ?
Selena,

You are correct! Please call it "Corrective Action." That eliminates all confusion. The whole process to eliminate detected nonconformities and their causes is called "Corrective Action."

Stijloor.
 
Last edited:
S

selena15

#17
hi
i'm not able to open this link provided by world quality and it is not the first time, even i'm member
may i know why ?
:thanks:
 
B

Bob the QE

#19
I have worked under several different management styles in ISO and now AS worlds and I have found the level of support, cooperation and intent plays into whether or not you would want one or two. While I agree with the masses that there is no requirement I have also found that if the management groups intent is to make the QMS work for them two procedures worked well, if the intent was to have talking points for the auditor to sign off on (ISO) then one worked well (even though the audit team's did not think so). Just my experience.
 
S

selena15

#20
no it is okay i succed to get it thanks Ajit.
for us in my previous job, we got one procedures which treat the Corrective and ¨Preventive action
even in the current work we got one.
my explication of ISO requirement is that the mandatory is to get a procedure of CA & PA, but not necessary separate one! if it is written two time, it is just because the CA & PA are nitified in two separate chapter and of course in order to avoid any confusion, to have a procedure written is mentioned in the 2 chapter ! :bonk:?
 
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