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AS-9100 rev C Clause 4.2.4 - Supplier Records Requirements

C

cwolfe5303

#1
New requirement in the standard requires "a procedure to define the method for controlling records that are created by and/or retained by suppliers".

How does one control the records of a supplier if they are retained by the supplier and more important, how does one identify which records to retain? We deal with a myriad of supplier each having various complex processes.

We can deal with the certification that are supplied to us but perplexed about records that they must retain for their purposes.

Any advice??:confused:
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
New requirement in the standard requires "a procedure to define the method for controlling records that are created by and/or retained by suppliers".

How does one control the records of a supplier if they are retained by the supplier and more important, how does one identify which records to retain? We deal with a myriad of supplier each having various complex processes.

We can deal with the certification that are supplied to us but perplexed about records that they must retain for their purposes.

Any advice??:confused:
Bump!

Can someone help with this?

Thank you very much!!

Stijloor.
 

DannyK

Trusted Information Resource
#3
Suppliers generate records that are kept at the supplier's location.
What most companies do is they add a clause in their PO to retain records as per OEM requirements.
This is also a flowdown of requirements from the customer.
If you sell products to the aerospace industry you must maintain traceability and retain records.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#4
We can deal with the certification that are supplied to us but perplexed about records that they must retain for their purposes.

Any advice??:confused:
You only need to worry about records they maintain for you. Anything they keep for themselves is their own business.

PO requirements or a supplier agreement would be methods to tell them what records you want them to retain (if any), how long to keep them, and any other retention requirements. Whatever method you choose should be specified in your control of records procedure.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
You only need to worry about records they maintain for you. Anything they keep for themselves is their own business.

PO requirements or a supplier agreement would be methods to tell them what records you want them to retain (if any), how long to keep them, and any other retention requirements. Whatever method you choose should be specified in your control of records procedure.
Agree..

and in addition

Most companies use T & C (Terms and Conditions) and other will use LTA (long term agreements) and some will use the PO (Purchase Order) as the document to flow down requirements from Customers and internal to suppliers.

As stated very nicely, pass on the retention time. One of the liabilities that is out there is for companies telling suppliers to retain documents but not being specific on the length of time. Legally speaking - if you are not clear in the retention time, the suppliers will easily dispose of all documents usually after 2 or 3 years. Aerospace (as principle - following the example by Sarbanes-Oxley - 10 years). Please note that the standard does NOT specify (removed - AS9120) how long you should tell suppliers how long to hold on to records. That is a customer requirement and should be discussed at the earliest). - Clause 7.2 - (Contract Review).

The trend out there is to place - as a control document - those requirements (T & C) on the webpage and have suppliers go and read it from there. The PO will only send them to the Website for requirements.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#6
Don't forget that you need to keep a register (list) of these delegations. Simply specifying it on the PO is not enough.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
Don't forget that you need to keep a register (list) of these delegations. Simply specifying it on the PO is not enough.
Big Jim;

Can you elaborate on your written statement...

The topic is about retention of records and flow down of retention of records. (AS9100 7.4.2 h) records retention requirements,
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#9
Big Jim;

Can you elaborate on your written statement...

The topic is about retention of records and flow down of retention of records. (AS9100 7.4.2 h) records retention requirements,
7.4.3 "Where the organization delegates verification activities to the supplier, the requirements for delegation shall be defined and a register of delegations maintained."

That's what I was thinking about, but I now see it is not really the topic at hand.
 

RCW

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
You only need to worry about records they maintain for you. Anything they keep for themselves is their own business.
With the help of others at my company, we have identified that none of our suppliers hold records for us. Any pertinent documention (ATPs, FAIs, material certs, and the like) are required to be delivered to us at time of product/material delivery.

With that being said, what's the best way to address the 4.2.4 supplier-record requirement? Add it as being non-applicable in my quality manual and that if the situation of having a supplier hold records for us arises that we would put a procedure in place to address it?

Or am I being naive here? Are there additional supplier records I should be considering that I have never seen but should be aware of?
 
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