AS 9100D internal auditor training requirements

Q

QAguygoqa

#1
Must internal auditors need to be trained on AS9100D to conduct internal audits, even if they are ISO 9001-2015 trained? or is it that the auditor has to be competent.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Trusted Information Resource
#2
Must internal auditors need to be trained on AS9100D to conduct internal audits, even if they are ISO 9001-2015 trained? or is it that the auditor has to be competent.
My simple answer is yes.

How can they perform internal audits to a standard that they haven't been trained on? AS9100 and ISO9001 have some differences.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Must internal auditors need to be trained on AS9100D to conduct internal audits, even if they are ISO 9001-2015 trained? or is it that the auditor has to be competent.
The answer is - they should! but it is not a requirement of the standard. There is no need for training and or for competence. However, you get what you invest in it.

A good competent internal auditor / external auditor or consultant would add value to your processes and in essence, that is what you are looking for.

This is the only requirement: select auditors and conduct audits to ensure objectivity and the impartiality of the audit process;
 
#4
Must internal auditors need to be trained on AS9100D to conduct internal audits, even if they are ISO 9001-2015 trained? or is it that the auditor has to be competent.
Nope. If they are adults, they can read AS9100D, I'm guessing. Who needs "training" on something we can read? Seriously, what's the point of spending money on having someone read a set of requirements off a Powerpoint slide presentation?

As the ISO 9001:2015 requirements state, have you identified competencies? Do your internal auditors need to be competent in AS9100D? As in chapter and verse? Or is it better they know YOUR QMS and do an effective job auditing that? My money is on the later.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
Nope. If they are adults, they can read AS9100D, I'm guessing. Who needs "training" on something we can read? Seriously, what's the point of spending money on having someone read a set of requirements off a Powerpoint slide presentation?

As the ISO 9001:2015 requirements state, have you identified competencies? Do your internal auditors need to be competent in AS9100D? As in chapter and verse? Or is it better they know YOUR QMS and do an effective job auditing that? My money is on the later.

NOTE: the standard does not require to be competent, trained or have internal auditors trained but...

What makes sense of your investment in getting individual to know the requirements, implementation and effectiveness of the process interaction..
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Nope. If they are adults, they can read AS9100D, I'm guessing. Who needs "training" on something we can read? Seriously, what's the point of spending money on having someone read a set of requirements off a Powerpoint slide presentation?

As the ISO 9001:2015 requirements state, have you identified competencies? Do your internal auditors need to be competent in AS9100D? As in chapter and verse? Or is it better they know YOUR QMS and do an effective job auditing that? My money is on the later.
Yep. All you really need a is a copy of the standard and access to this site.

A few years ago we had a "finding" because our internal auditors where not "trained" to the updated version (I think it was the 2008?). My comment was exactly what you said -- when they prepare for the audit, the pick up the standard and read the applicable parts. He wanted them to document that they read it -- that was "training" according to him. It was laughable.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#7
NOTE: the standard does not require to be competent,
It doesn't? :mg:
What does this mean?

The organization shall:
a) determine the necessary competence of person(s) doing work under its control that affects the performance and effectiveness of the quality management system;
b) ensure that these persons are competent on the basis of appropriate education, training, or experience;
c) where applicable, take actions to acquire the necessary competence, and evaluate the effectiveness of the actions taken;
d) retain appropriate documented information as evidence of competence.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
It doesn't? :mg:
What does this mean?
Sidney

Really

Taking information from one clause 7.2 to make it fit to consultant, external and internal auditors....

Really??? WOW



7.2 Competence

The organization shall:

a. determine the necessary competence of person(s) doing work under its control that affects the performance and effectiveness of the quality management system;

b. ensure that these persons are competent on the basis of appropriate education, training, or experience;

c. where applicable, take actions to acquire the necessary competence, and evaluate the effectiveness of the actions taken;

d. retain appropriate documented information as evidence of competence.

NOTE: Consideration should be given for the periodic review of the necessary competence.

NOTE: Applicable actions can include, for example, the provision of training to, the mentoring of, or the re-assignment of currently employed persons; or the hiring or contracting of competent persons.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
Wow? So, you think the requirements don't apply to internal auditors?

Really?
Is not what I think - it is the interpretation of ANAB, IAQG and CB.

I have written my share of NCR againt this issue just to learn that it is not really applicable to internal audit...

So, if you could change their minds - I am in your corner but until then...
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
R AS 9100D internal audit checklist AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
R Please help me with attached copy of AS 9100D internal audit check sheet AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
was named killer AS 9100D - Calibration Instructions - Controlled documents? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
R AS 9100D - Containment and Corrective action AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
Nicole Desouza The Difference of being AS 9100D Compliant vs.Certified AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 13
DuncanGibbons Clear differences between ISO 13485 and AS 9100D requirements ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 10
DuncanGibbons How does AS 9100D correlate or differ from NADCAP accreditation? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
Marc IAQG announces 9100D:2016 Deployment Support Webinars (Winter 2017) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 0
M AS 9100D Sections 7.2 and 7.3 - "Control" AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
G Internal Laboratory Scope IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
B Internal audit checklist Internal Auditing 5
V Internal Audit Software IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
J Internal Audit Schedule IATF Internal Auditing 3
J API Q1 4.3.2.2 Personnel Competence for Internal Auditors Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 4
D Internal auditor competence assessment Internal Auditing 12
C ISO 14001 Internal Audit - Opportunity for Improvement ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
T Ford CSR for Internal Auditors 2021 Internal Auditing 4
P Does FDA require certification for quality system internal audit for auditor? Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 1
P Looking to outsource Internal Audit - MDSAP competent auditor needed Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 9
D INTERNAL LABORATORY IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
S Transition training for Internal Auditor from ISO 9001: 2008 to the ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
J IATF CB Auditor questions Internal Auditor Competence IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 19
J Outsourced Internal Audit requirements for Aerospace Suppliers AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 21
D Number of people to be interviewed during an internal audit? Internal Auditing 10
cgaro62 Using internal audits as part of document reviews Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 21
S Is it required to complete Internal Audits within one year? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 29
C First Round of QMS Internal Audits - Ethical Dilemma Internal Auditing 10
T How to conduct combined internal audits (9001 and 13485) Internal Auditing 1
Q Easy CARs for Internal Audit ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 14
A Internal audit plan and processes for ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
C API Q1 internal audit report Internal Auditing 3
AllTheThings ISO-17025 accredited TEST lab performing internal calibrations (Yes: Here is how) ISO 17025 related Discussions 6
M Must a company be 17025 accredited to perform internal calibrations? ISO 17025 related Discussions 7
P Filled in F48/F49 for internal audit ISO 17025:2017 Internal Auditing 2
A ISO 9001 Internal Audits - No production right now due to furloughs Internal Auditing 5
J Internal audit random sampling methodology Internal Auditing 2
G Organizing internal audit program for an Integrated QHSE Management System Internal Auditing 13
W How do you phrase your internal audit questions? Internal Auditing 3
M IATF - Internal Audit 3 year span Internal Auditing 4
Thee Bouyyy Internal NCR - API Q1 5.4.2b - API 16C Clause 4.1.3 Internal Auditing 9
Q ISO 9001-2015 Internal audit finding Internal Auditing 14
lanley liao How to understand this words that the planning of internal audit shall take into consideration the results of previous audits? Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 10
A Add MDSAP to Internal Audit Schedule Medical Device Related Regulations 0
J IATF 16949 Internal Audit question - Auditor's responsibility Internal Auditing 6
M ISO13485:2016, MDSAP and Internal Audits ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 8
S IATF 16949 Internal Audit Example IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 18
R AS9100D internal audit checklist or ISO 9001 2015 to AS9100 D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
S Would this be a second site for the purposes of internal and third party audits? General Auditing Discussions 4
V Internal Auditor Competency KPI IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
J ISMS - Internal Audits Internal Auditing 5

Similar threads

Top Bottom