As a consultant, have you ever fired a client? If so, when?

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#11
Re: As a consultant, do you ever fire a client? If so, when?

HOLY! And I thought I have worked for some rude, ignorant, pompous people in my past (early in my career when I had to take the abuse to get the experience). Although, for those people I might have said "thank you" if they did that.
When I went to college, the fraternity scene was closing down on the physical abuse handed out to pledges for hazing. I recall at least two fraternities which still gave pledges a cricket bat emblazoned with the fraternity logo. Pledges were required to carry the bat and submit to a "swat" for an infraction of the hokey "rules" for pledges. After the swat, they were required to say, "Thank you, sir. May I have another?" (which they usually got!)

My fraternity did not do that, nor could any of the "old boys" remember it as a practice in our fraternity house, but admitted our fraternity on some campuses were still doing it up through 1955. The house decorations included cricket bats up through the Class of '38, but none for classes post WWII.
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#12
Re: As a consultant, do you ever fire a client? If so, when?

When I went to college, the fraternity scene was closing down on the physical abuse handed out to pledges for hazing. I recall at least two fraternities which still gave pledges a cricket bat emblazoned with the fraternity logo. Pledges were required to carry the bat and submit to a "swat" for an infraction of the hokey "rules" for pledges. After the swat, they were required to say, "Thank you, sir. May I have another?" (which they usually got!)

My fraternity did not do that, nor could any of the "old boys" remember it as a practice in our fraternity house, but admitted our fraternity on some campuses were still doing it up through 1955. The house decorations included cricket bats up through the Class of '38, but none for classes post WWII.
 
S

somerqc

#13
Re: As a consultant, do you ever fire a client? If so, when?

My "thank you" would have been more along the lines of "thank you for releasing me from prison".
 
J

JaneB

#14
Re: As a consultant, do you ever fire a client? If so, when?

Interesting responses - thanks people.

In my 20 years as a Quality Systems Consultant, I did not FIRE a client but I did refused to be associated with them. Maybe that could be considered the same.
I see them as the the same thing. A voluntary decision to withdraw from/terminate a relationship - ie, not initiated by the client.

I agree, for a consultant, reputation is vital. The MD of the client I mentioned was pushing to begin sign up with certifier - and not only were they far from ready, but I definitely wasn't willing to have my name & thus reputation associated with them.

I found that they had fudged a lot of data. I was to be onsite as an observer during the audit but declined. As a Consultant, my reputation is vital and never get involved in a company that fudges records.
Yikes, indeed not! I won't have anything to do with dishonesty either. I'd have made the same decision you did in both cases.

An earlier client I fired was one I'd worked with for a couple of years, during which I helped them turn a dreadful cumbersome pile of *&^%$ (though certified! heaven knows how) into a streamlined & functional, clear system.

They wanted me to continue helping with various internal projects, as well as acting as their QM and internal auditor. Two things happened: a/ I realised that there was quite some disparity between the stated policies and 'people values' and also a lot of blame going on - by the GM and of everyone else. ('Teamwork' really did mean 'do it my way'. And when push came to shove, forget some of those values). And b/during an internal audit, I discovered a senior manager there was regularly reporting completely false figures on returned products (very low figures reported... but a shelf crammed with them in the warehouse). This was just the last of a series of lies he'd been telling for a long time - but the GM 'couldn't decide' what to do.

Initially I had thought the blame thing might be changeable. Nope. He didn't want to even consider it, took refuge in claimed ignorance. And when that didn't work, anger. I struggled a little longer, and then decided it was a lost cause. Wrote a very clear summary of what had been done, what was still to be accomplished... and the top issues I thought needed to be dealt with & why, relating all back to the published company policy & values (ie, disparity between). Setting the bridge thoroughly alight :)

Indeed yes.

Liked Wes' technique too - good one. And I agree with his clear separation of a true consultant/advisor from a contract worker ( in essence 'a pair of hands').

As a consultant, I consider I have a responsibility to act as a model of the values and behaviours I espouse. And if a particular engagement brings up a 'values conflict', then it's something I have to deal with. For me, I think the conflict in values is between my commitment to help the client and get them to their defined goal (something I take seriously), and my commitment to my own values and ethics. In some ways, it felt like 'letting the client down' to terminate the engagement. But I also felt it would have been dishonest to have continued, given the opinion that I had formed. WDYT?
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#15
Re: As a consultant, do you ever fire a client? If so, when?

:topic: Way, way :topic:

Wes is a Frat Rat?

Did you wear a beanie and a striped sweater?
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#16
Re: As a consultant, do you ever fire a client? If so, when?

:topic: Way, way :topic:

Wes is a Frat Rat?

Did you wear a beanie and a striped sweater?
Just the pin. I was a jock and nobody wanted to mess with me. Of all the fraternities, I managed to choose the one with the worst food! I stayed in the school dorm with a private room, maid service, and great food instead of moving into the frat house with one or two roomies. My ostensible excuse was "jock training table." The frat house was great for the bar and parties.

I was on an academic scholarship, not athletic.
 
#19
I had one instance where things were going tough. The client was just not gettng anywhere. The MR was at his wits end because of one manager who absolutely refused to cooperate in any form, figure or fashion. This caused other managers to drag their feet on key issues.

The result was we were way behind schedule. I was diligent in pointing out our falling behind on a weekly basis, and top management kept promising to get things done. Things came to a head during a meeting arranged by the MR between top management (read owner) and that particular manager. At one point, the MR had to leave the room to get some paperwork. The owner told the manager to lay off the MR. Although this entire QS (kinda dates the story) thing was a farce, the customer required it. He did not expect the manager to really do anything, but instead asked him to “humor” the MR until the entire thing blows over.

I asked the manager to step out of the room, and had a discussion with the owner as to the importance of QS. I also stated that with his attitude, they would not get registered, and his customer would drop him. I also stated that I never had a company fail an audit yet, and I was not going to let him be the first. I gave him two choices. Step up to the plate, or I would drop him as a client. He fired me.

The MR quit a short time later. They never did pass the audit (despite attempting with 3 different registrars – one of which has a very loose reputation). Their building was vacant within a couple of years.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#20
I had one instance where things were going tough. The client was just not gettng anywhere. The MR was at his wits end because of one manager who absolutely refused to cooperate in any form, figure or fashion. This caused other managers to drag their feet on key issues.

The result was we were way behind schedule. I was diligent in pointing out our falling behind on a weekly basis, and top management kept promising to get things done. Things came to a head during a meeting arranged by the MR between top management (read owner) and that particular manager. At one point, the MR had to leave the room to get some paperwork. The owner told the manager to lay off the MR. Although this entire QS (kinda dates the story) thing was a farce, the customer required it. He did not expect the manager to really do anything, but instead asked him to “humor” the MR until the entire thing blows over.

I asked the manager to step out of the room, and had a discussion with the owner as to the importance of QS. I also stated that with his attitude, they would not get registered, and his customer would drop him. I also stated that I never had a company fail an audit yet, and I was not going to let him be the first. I gave him two choices. Step up to the plate, or I would drop him as a client. He fired me.

The MR quit a short time later. They never did pass the audit (despite attempting with 3 different registrars – one of which has a very loose reputation). Their building was vacant within a couple of years.
But other than that everything went OK, right? :tg: Yet another example of how leadership--or lack thereof--is the key to the whole thing, and the difference between a rubber-stamp system and one that works for the company. I know from personal experience that at least one of the B3 did the equivalent of putting QS 9000 certificates in Cracker Jack boxes for many of its suppliers, going so far as to designate a "registrar of choice." Thus many companies with egregiously dysfunctional leadership (and quality systems) were registered. Now many of those chickens are coming home to roost.
 
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