AS9003 vs. AS9100 - Are the requirements of AS9003 included in AS9100?

[vanputten]

Hello All:

Are the requirements of AS9003 included in AS9100? Is AS9003 a subset of requirements from AS9100 specificaly for organizations involved only in inpection and test?

Is the structure of AS9100 sort of like the old structure of ISO 9001:1994 where there were other versions (9002, 9003) for diffeent types of organizations?

I am trying to learn about AS9003.

Thank you, Dirk van Putten

 

[Marc]

We need an aerospace expert for this one. Sidney, do you know the answer to this one?

 

[Sidney Vianna]

AS9003 is a standard, based on the obsoleted ISO 9003:1994. The intent of the AS9003 document, which is a model based on final inspection and test, is for small, non-design responsible, make-to-print shops. There are only 3 CRBs accredited for AS9003, but few OEMs are flowing down AS9003, so that document might end up being obsoleted.

AS9100, presently at Rev. B, is an ISO 9001:2000 based document, with many Aerospace specific additional requirements.

I would not say that AS9003 is a subset of AS9100, since they are based in different standards, but, IN PRINCIPLE, if you were to comply with AS9100, you should be also in compliance with AS9003.

 

[RCW]

......but few OEMs are flowing down AS9003, so that document might end up being obsoleted.

AS OF RIGHT NOW, Boeing's Quality Mangement System Requirements for Suppliers (BQMS)(document D6-82479), requires suppliers to be either AS9100 registered or AS9003 compliant. (I say AS9003 compliant since we have never been pressed to seek registration on it, and have been audited several times by Boeing in regards to AS9003.) My Boeing quality rep confirms that AS9003 is for smaller, build-to-print shops, which is the category my company falls in.

I was wondering if anybody ever heard anything about AS9003 being updated to mirror 9000:2000? I doubt that it will but as long as Boeing makes this one of their requirements, I don't see AS9003 going away anytime soon.

 

[KimLoree]

Dirk,

I agree with Sidney and RCW's assessment. Here's one definition I found:

AS9003 is based on ISO 9001:1994 and adds specific requirements for the outsourced inspection and test quality system providers. AS9003 has less stringent requirements compared to AS9100 due to the scaled back nature of operations of such organizations.

It might help to know that:
International Standards - AS91XX - Are recognized globally
Americas Standards - AS90XX - May become a 91XX if approved by the International Aerospace Quality Group.

May I ask why you are looking into AS9003? My company is an aerospace supplier and we have never been asked to show compliance with AS9003 by any of our customers. We are always asked if we are AS9100 3rd party ceritfied, which we accomplished in Feb. 2004.

RCW, I have also heard that they are looking at bringing AS9003 into the ISO9000:2000 format.

 

[vanputten]

Hello KimLoree:

I started this thread becasue one of our aerospace customers is asking us to be certified to AS9003. We are complaint to AS9100 but not certified. We are certified to TS 16949.

We had never heard of AS9003.

Thank you for all of the responses, Dirk

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Less than 9100, more than 9001

Last week I became a member of the team rewriting AS9003.

At this point we are going over the AS9100B document to identify requirements that could be deleted, in order to keep AS9003 a "less than 9100" document.

However, it seems that a consensus has already been reached that ALL of ISO 9001:2000 will be in AS9003.

 

[vanputten]

Hello Sidney:

I realize you just joined the AS9003 revision group but I am hoping you can seek out some feedback to my comments below. My rant below is NOT directed at you but I am hoping you can represent my thoughts or gather some feedback from the AS9003 revision group.

How will a revised AS9003 standard (with all of ISO 9001:2000) differ in content and purpose from AS9100? I thought AS9100 was the sector specific version of ISO 9001:2000? It continues to confuse me why the Aerospace industry beleives they need AS9100, company specific requirements like Boeing Quality Management System (BQMS) and now a revised standard (AS9003) that used to be applied to organizations that provided inspection and test but now will include all of ISO 9001:2000.

Where do we draw the line between standardization and standards? Could we just stick with AS9100, minimize the number of standards, and simplify things for the users? This would also simplify things for the conformity assessment world and the aerospace customers. A simliar simplification happened when ISO 9001 / 90002/ 9003 were combined into ISO 9001:2000. Every standard has to be managed for content, interpretations of intent, implementions, and conformity assessment.

The world of quality does not need more standards. The world of quality needs more oversight and support for the current standards and their users.

Thank you, Dirk

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Thanks for not shooting the messenger

AS9003 Rev. A, when released, should be a subset of AS9100 Rev.B. In other words, all of AS9003A should be contained in AS9100B.

The rationale, from the Aerospace OEM’s for AS9003 is that, many suppliers in Aerospace Supply Chain should not be subjected to the full set of requirements contained in AS9100. For example, as well known, there are a number of small machine shops, who simply “build-to-print”, with no design capability and much less sophisticated QMS than, larger, tier 1 and 2 Aerosuppliers. For these small suppliers, the Aerospace OEMs felt that AS9100 would be too much of a burden. Thus, the concept of AS9003A which will (likely) include all of ISO 9001:2000, plus some specific Aerospace requirements.

Please note that, AS9003 was not meant to organizations that provided inspection and test, as you said. AS9003, in it’s original inception was meant to organizations that, due to less complexity and criticality, could “assure” the conformity to requirements, based on final inspection and test. I, for one, never agreed with that concept for Aerospace suppliers.

Also, remember that AS9003 is just one more document of a long list (see below). 9110 and 9120, aimed at, respectively, Repair & Overhaul and Aerospace Distributors are other “certifiable standards” that the Aerospace Community decided to develop.

AIR5359B
Requirements for Certification/Registration of Aerospace Quality Management Systems
2003-07-23
Revised

AIR5493A
Requirements for Development, Implementation and Control of An Aerospace Auditor Training
2003-05-15
Revised

ARP9004
Direct Ship - Recommended Practices for Aerospace Companies
2002-04-08
Issued

ARP9034
A Process Standard for the Storage, Retrieval and Use of Three-Dimensional Type Design Data
2003-09-04
Issued

ARP9062
Aerospace Operator Self-Verification Programs
2004-03-24
Issued

ARP9090
Requirements for Industry Standard E-Tool to Collaborate Quality Assurance Activities Among Customers and Suppliers
2004-06-16
Issued

ARP9134
Supply Chain Risk Management Guidelines
2004-03-03
Issued

AS9000A
Aerospace Basic Quality System Standard (Cancelled Feb 2004)
2004-02-19
Cancelled

AS9000-APPNDX1A
AS9000 Audit Summary and Supplier Profile Instructions (Cancelled Dec 2003)
2003-12-19
Cancelled

AS9003
Inspection and Test Quality System
2001-10-01
Issued

AS9006
Deliverable Aerospace Software Supplement for As9100a
2003-03-12
Issued

AS9012A
Aerospace First Article Inspection Requirements (Cancelled Apr 2003)
2003-04-17
Cancelled

AS9100
Quality Systems - Aerospace - Model for Quality Assurance in Design, Development, Production, Installation and Servicing
1999-11-01
Issued

AS9100A
Quality Systems - Aerospace - Model for Quality Assurance in Design, Development, Production, Installation and Servicing
2001-08-01
Revised

AS9100B
Quality Management Systems - Aerospace - Requirements
2004-01-06
Revised

AS9101
Quality System Assessment
2000-09-01
Issued

AS9101A
Quality System Assessment
2002-04-24
Revised

AS9101B
Quality Management Systems Assessment
2003-03-17
Revised

AS9102A
Aerospace First Article Inspection Requirement
2004-01-13
Revised

AS9103
Variation Management of Key Characteristics
2001-10-01
Issued

AS9104A
Requirements for Aerospace Quality Management System Certification/Registrations Programs
2005-01-21
Revised

AS9110
Quality Maintenance Systems - Aerospace - Requirements for Maintenance Organizations
2003-01-11
Issued

AS9120
Quality Management Systems - Aerospace Requirements for Stockist Distributors
2002-11-04
Issued

AS9121
Aerospace Series Quality Systems Quality System Assessment Applicable to Stockist Distributors
2003-08-04
Issued

AS9131
Quality Systems Non-Conformance Documentation
2001-12-21
Issued

AS9132
Data Matrix (2d) Coding Quality Requirements for Parts Marking
2002-02-26
Issued

AS9133
Qualification Procedure for Aerospace Standard Parts
2002-07-16
Issued

 

[Sidney Vianna]

AS9003: Love or leave it!

The team involved with the AS9003 rewrite effort has ben placed on hold. Under the auspices of the AAQG/RMC - Americas Aerospace Quality Group/ Registrar Management Committee - discussions are being held about the adequacy of an aerospace standard that is "less than" ISO 9001. Futher, due to the fact that the European Aerospace OEMs have no desire to implement/flow down AS9003, certificates to this Standard are not available in the OASIS database.

Some OEMs are flowing down AS9003. Some require certification to AS9003. But the discussions are on-going and it is unclear, at this time, what is the future for AS9003.

At this moment, there are 5 CRBs accredited under the ANAB Scheme to issue certificates to this Standard.