AS9003 vs. AS9100 - Are the requirements of AS9003 included in AS9100?

[Sidney Vianna]

Does AS9003 have a future?

At Savannah, GA, this week, attending one more round of AAQG meetings. Today we had more discussions on the future of AS9003. Tomorrow, the AAQG will vote on the way forward for this standard, but I suspect that a decision will be made NOT to revise AS9003, i.e., "use-as-is" . AS9003, which has no supporters in Europe nor Asia will not be an "ICOP" (Industry Controlled Other Party) controlled standard. Nevertheless, the ANAB AS9003 accreditation scheme will probably be maintained. As news develop, I will relay them. Stay tuned.

 

[RCW]

Here's some food for thought.......

Wouldn't it just be easier (and make more sense?) to:
1) Drop AS9003
2) Have aerospace suppliers comply with AS9100 BUT allow them to take exception to a minimal number of clauses (ex. exclude the design function from their scope)

This is probably too simplistic of an idea and could be a logistics nightmare (tracking what clauses you claim exception for).

Can you tell I just went through another Boeing audit this week?

 

[Cari Spears]

Good idea - making that list a sticky, Muleskinner.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Here's some food for thought.......
Wouldn't it just be easier (and make more sense?) to:
1) Drop AS9003
2) Have aerospace suppliers comply with AS9100 BUT allow them to take exception to a minimal number of clauses (ex. exclude the design function from their scope) This is probably too simplistic of an idea and could be a logistics nightmare (tracking what clauses you claim exception for).

This option was one of several explored. But, as I predicted, AS9003 will remain as is, i.e., it will not be revised. For those organizations that want or need an accredited certification you can find the AS9003 accredited CRBs at http://db.anab.org/rab/regSearchQMS.do?action=showSearchForm&registrarType=QMS pull down AS9003 and run a search.
The present results are:
Search Results:

The following certification bodies have been accredited (unless noted as an applicant) by ANAB

BSI America Inc. trading as BSI, Inc.
Tom Shelley
12110 Sunset Hills Road
Suite 200
Reston VA 20190-3231
United States
Phone : 703-464-1931
Fax : 703-437-9001


Det Norske Veritas Certification, Inc.
Yehuda Dror
16340 Park Ten Place
Suite 100
Houston TX 77084
United States
Phone : 281-721-6818
Fax : 281-721-6903


National Quality Assurance, USA
Arlen Chapman
4 Post Office Square Road
Acton MA 01720
United States
Phone : 978-635-9256 x.231
Fax : 978-263-0785


Performance Review Institute Registrar
Pete Kucan
161 Thornhill Road
Warrendale PA 15086-7527
United States
Phone : 724-772-7170
Fax : 724-772-1699
Other qualifications:



SGS Systems and Services Certification, a division of SGS US Testing Co.Inc
Malcolm Ting
Meadows Office Complex
201 Route 17 North
Rutherford NJ 07070
United States
Phone : 201-508-3017
Fax : 201-508-3193

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Last night I was a guest speaker for the Los Angeles Section of ASQ. I spoke about the Aerospace Standards being developed under the IAQG/AAQG process. The presentation that I used is attached.

 

[abhayair]

Re: ISO 9001 versus AS9100 - What are the industry specific requirements in AS 9100?

Dear Sir,
I am a lead auditor for QMS,EMS,OHSAS offering consultancy services in India. One of the proposed client for me is aviation consumable supplier who want to go for AS 9100.
Clinet has requested me to implement ISO 9001 first followed by AS 9100 or integrating both the standards from the start of the implementation of ISO 9001 followed by AS 9100.

Sir, Who can offer online consultancy support for AS?
wHAT WILL BE THE COST?
Where can i get info on 83 requirements of AS 9100?
rgds
Abhay Rajpurkar

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Some upcoming documents and revisions to documents are listed in the attached document, distributed this week at the AAQG meeting.

 

[Buckyb]

We are exactly the type of small build-to-print shop (14 employees) that this thread refers to. We are an AS9100C Registered Supplier as required by the only company that requires us to be....Boeing. We have had a "Gold" status since we received our first contract with Boeing a number of years ago. However, we don't make a single part that goes on an aircraft, we make ground support equipment. Looking at the two Standards, it would make sense to either "lighten up" on AS9100 or provide similar guidance under AS9003. I often feel like I have a QMS for the sake of having one since it isn't tailored to our company. Don't misunderstand, we believe that ISO/AS makes us a better company. But looking at AS9003, I believe it would fit the bill for us and still give Boeing what it needs in an approved supplier.

 

[James_Hart]

We are exactly the type of small build-to-print shop (14 employees) that this thread refers to. We are an AS9100C Registered Supplier as required by the only company that requires us to be....Boeing. We have had a "Gold" status since we received our first contract with Boeing a number of years ago. However, we don't make a single part that goes on an aircraft, we make ground support equipment. Looking at the two Standards, it would make sense to either "lighten up" on AS9100 or provide similar guidance under AS9003. I often feel like I have a QMS for the sake of having one since it isn't tailored to our company. Don't misunderstand, we believe that ISO/AS makes us a better company. But looking at AS9003, I believe it would fit the bill for us and still give Boeing what it needs in an approved supplier.

Bucky, couple things to think about and look into. Are you audited through Nadcap? If so, Nadcap does not except AS9003 as an exceptable certification anymore, even after the recent revision. There are very few ISO Registrars that still certify companies to AS9003. Does Boeing require a QMS for your current contract? If so, do they only accept AS9100? It looks as though ISO 9001 would be best for your company based on your comments. It is hard to judge without speaking with you.

 

[Buckyb]

Thank you James for your comments. We are not NADCAP certified. I have received several comments back and all seem to point to ISO9001 certification rather than AS9100. I will continue to pursue this avenue. As a Quality Manager, I have an obligation to save the company money but still want the best QMS I can have. I intend to contact my Boeing Quality Rep and get his input as well.