AS9100 7.5.2 NOTE Approval methods identified

Crusader

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#1
In AS9100 7.5.2 NOTE, it states that approval implies authorized persons and approval methods are identified.
what does this mean exactly???

our process states
”Obtain Process Owner approval of the change.” That’s it. Doesn’t say how or if it has to be a signature, or ??. Just get it. This implies any method. Verbal, recorded, etc.

does this statement meet the intended requirements of AS9100?
Thanks in advance!!
 
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Crusader

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#3
If there were only a verbal approval, how would you show evidence of it if asked?
EXACTLY!!!! My boss is adamant about not obtaining proof of approvals and putting that burden on the Process Owner. Leaving it up to them on how they will accomplish that approval.
I don’t support this method but that is what he wants.
 

Mike S.

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#4
I require a handwritten signature, digital signature i.e. in Adobe, or an email from the approver.

I suppose if you documented ("identified") in your procedure that verbal approval was acceptable it may technically meet the standard, as it doesn't require that you "retain documented infomation" of the approval, but that could open up a can of worms if someone forgot they approved something or felt as though they approved something different, etc.

In this case I think common sense trumps the standard and you should get some kind of approval that is stronger than verbal. It's really easy to do.
 

Crusader

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#6
I guess I should not have used the word “verbal” above. I was only stating that no method is defined in our process for capturing the approval of documents... Leaving that door wide open, lets the process owner interpret it any way they want. That is what bothers me and that is why I was looking for an accurate interpretation of that NOTE in 7.5.2.

I need factual evidence to show my boss and I cannot find it. Evidence that approvals must be captured digitally, hand written, etc.
 

Mike S.

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#7
I don't think the evidence you seek exists.

Does a problem actually exist, or just potentially exist? In other words, are any approvals currently not documented in any way (i.e. verbal)? If not, and the boss says you can't change what the procedure says currently, I'd drop it.

If some approval are currently verbal, if you have a relationship with your registrar auditor you could ask him/her if he/she would consider that acceptable or not.
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
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#8
I go along with @Mike S. I learned my lesson the hard way when I was young and stupid (as opposed to be old and stupid as I am now:)), when a person who had verbally approved something later denied it outright.
I had a situation once where the Production Manager asked me if a lot of material was approved. I said it is still in test, we won't know for another 2 hours. Two hours later the test was completed, the material failed, and I sent the signed test report to the various recipients showing it as rejected.

Well apparently the PM had already released the material and the shop was working on rejected material, wasting the shop time and material (it could have been used elsewhere). When he got questioned about it he told his boss that I told him it was approved, a blatant lie and he knew it, but he was trying to cover his butt. I was quite hot about being called a liar, but the fact was everyone knew and it was documented procedurally that without a signed test release, the material should not have been released to the shop. He really had no leg to stand on.

He was a really charismatic guy but I never trusted him after that. He went on to become a used car salesman - a stereotypical one I'm sure.
 

Crusader

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#9
I don't think the evidence you seek exists.

Does a problem actually exist, or just potentially exist? In other words, are any approvals currently not documented in any way (i.e. verbal)? If not, and the boss says you can't change what the procedure says currently, I'd drop it.

If some approval are currently verbal, if you have a relationship with your registrar auditor you could ask him/her if he/she would consider that acceptable or not.
I was afraid of that. I’ll let it drop. We have LRQA for our registrar and they are pretty lenient/ fair....and didn’t go down that path of pulling a thread.
 
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