AS9100 8.3 Procedure for Non-Conforming Parts - When should an NCR be filled out?

C

cceac

#1
We are a small contract manufacturer of aerospace parts, manufacturing to the AS9100 standard. I would like to get some comments on the interpretation of the AS9100 8.3 procedure for non-conforming parts based on a recent “discussion” we had with a quality rep from one of the major primes about NCR recording in our NCR database. He argued that the expectation of the standard is that any time we record a number in the reject column on the work order (traveler) there should be an offsetting NCR record in our NCR database. Our need is to not over-burden the quality department with excessive recording of “obvious” scrap caused by standard machine variation. Our current procedure allows for us to scrap parts and disposition them from the work order for nonconformities that have a defect code designated as obvious scrap due to standard machine variation. NCR records are created for every other defect code that allows us to track trends and effectiveness of our process. Obvious scrap is still tracked on the work traveler but not recorded in our database since we allow for this when setting up lot quantities and it is considered a needed cost of doing business.

I am curious as to your opinion if a formal NCR record needs to be created for EVERY type of defect code. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Sidney Vianna

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Staff member
Admin
#2
Welcome to The Cove. Despite the fact that you tried to elaborate on the situation, is not easy to provide advice with the amount of information you offered.

Instead of focusing on a straight interpretation of the standard, I would try to think along the lines of what makes sense from a business perspective.

Since one of the principles behind AS9100 is the ISO 9000-driven factual approach to decision making, without capturing the data about scrap parts due to (what you referred to as) standard machine variation, can you tell if that defect code represents 1, 5 or 20% of your scrap parts? Maybe intuitively, you might know that it is a very small percentage, but that was not clear from your post. From a business perspective, if I am "losing" US$50k in scrap parts per year because my production equipment is too old and it's standard variation is too wide, that could help me in justifying a capital investment of a new, replacement production equipment that would bring the scrap rate to US$5k/year.

Another thing to remember is that we track defect codes in order to analyze the data and make a determination when we should proceed with a corrective action, after a certain threshold might be reached. As most of us know, you will not trigger a corrective action for each and every nonconforming product you have, but without tracking it, how can we know?

IF (big IF) a potential corrective action for this type of problem is the capital investment I mentioned above with a new, modern, much more capable machine, I would want the numbers available so I could justify (or not) the expenditure.
 
C

cceac

#3
Thanks Sidney.....I should point out that we are not talking about a huge percentage of scrap....maybe 1-2%. We consider this scrap as a part of doing business and its defect code represents the kind of scrap that is beyond what can be predicted and controlled. From a business case we are still able to track it via our scrap reporting and able to make decisions based on this value. What I am trying argue is that an NCR record does not have to be created for every nonconformity as long as your procedure is effective and maintained. Am I correct?
 
#4
Thanks Sidney.....I should point out that we are not talking about a huge percentage of scrap....maybe 1-2%. We consider this scrap as a part of doing business and its defect code represents the kind of scrap that is beyond what can be predicted and controlled. From a business case we are still able to track it via our scrap reporting and able to make decisions based on this value. What I am trying argue is that an NCR record does not have to be created for every nonconformity as long as your procedure is effective and maintained. Am I correct?
You are correct. However, remember that even if your customer is not always right, he, hopefully, will always be your customer.

This may not be a battle you really want to win if it ends up costing you business.
 

Pjservan

Involved In Discussions
#5
This is not uncommon in the aerospace industry. My perspective in the matter is that you need to define when a NCR needs to be written. Furthermore if you have alternate methods to handle nonconforming product, these methods need to be acknowledged as part of your system. In your case it sounds that you do have a method to track scrap. The only question will be if you are able to show how scrap is tracked and if you are able to discern planned scrap vs. unplanned scrap. (Normally companies do this through yield analysis)
 
S

sflores2365

#6
So when should an NCR be written. My current employer also writes an NCR for every defect found. I mean every. :mg:
 
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