AS9100 and the VERY small business

[M Wombat]

I have a very small manufacturing company that designs and produces critical parts for aerospace. I must be AS9100 compliant in a short time. Everyone wears many hats here. We bought this company shortly after it emerged from bankruptcy many years ago. The cause was "too many chiefs" and too much paperwork. I can't let that happen again.
How can I find out what the MINIMUM is for records and documentation? Why do we need to have and document so many "meetings" when there are only 3 people in management that do all the engineering, purchasing, non-conf analysis, planning, etc.? I cannot see how all this new documentation is going to improve our quality! Our failure/discrepancy rate is almost nil now!
Any input? Anyone?

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Hi there, and welcome to the Cove.

First of all, I must admit that my knowledge of AS 9100 is next to nil... Ok, it is nil...

In ISO9001, however there is a clause (4.2.1, note 2) that says:

The extent of the qualitymanagement system documentation can differ from one organization to another due to

a) the size of organization and type of activities,
b) the complexity of processes and their interactions, and
c) the competence of personnel.

That allows some leeway for small organisations. Hopefully you can find something similar in AS9100...

/Claes

P.s. I also took the liberty to redirect your post to the AS9100 forum. Hopefully, that will provide you with more and better answers.

 

[BadgerMan]

AS 9100a contains the same note under 4.2.1. Section 4.2 of the standard will tell you pretty much all you need to know and it appears to be pretty flexible to allow for operations of different size and complexity.

If you interpret the AS 9100a standard literally, you will find that it requires a quality manual and only five “documented procedures”. Since we (my company) have not been through an AS 9100 rev A audit yet, I am not sure how our registrar will interpret the standard. I reality, we have quite a few “documented procedures”……..probably too many! The standard requires procedures in the following areas:

4.2.3, Control of Documents
4.2.4, Control of Records
8.3, Control of Nonconforming Product
8.5.2, Corrective Action
8.5.3, Preventive Action

Work instructions are the “meat” of the quality system but they can take many different forms (keep this in mind and be creative). The number and type will depend on the size and complexity of the organization.

As for records, they are the evidence that you are doing what your quality system documents say you will do. Again, the amount depends on the size and complexity of you operation.

I think it is critical that your chosen registrar understands your operation. Shop around for a registrar/auditor who has experience with smaller facilities/operations.

Good luck.

 

[Raptorwild]

I also work for a very small company a total of 6 people. We are ISO 9001 reg. and AS9100 compliant. We are going for another compliance audit this month. In the next year I plan on getting rid of all 20 procedures, revamping them into processes and slimming down to the required 5 or 6. I am coming to realize that it is not as difficult as first it seems. You really only have to;
Say what you Do.
Do what you Say.
Prove it.
Improve it.
I am sure your company is already doing this, its just a matter of putting it into a process that works for you. I THINK...

 

[Withrow]

I had similar concerns about AS9000, well AS9100 to be exact. You only need the five procedures documented, that is true, but there is also the documentation that you have to keep for quality records and meeting minutes.

Of course you need to keep you quality records, inspection and test records, etc., but with meetings, I finally got a clear translation on what is needed.

You have to show proof that executive management is kept up to date on what is going on with the company concerning quality and process's. This is done with a meeting summary and a written statement by the chief executive officer in the meeting, stating his or her opinion on the information that they just received. We only have to do this on our "Managers meeting" when each section reports for the month. The meeting is once a month, seven sections and the meeting summary is two pages, very brief.

The only other meeting documentation that you need is to document supervisor meetings with general staff to show managements commitment to flowing down process, quality and customer concerns to the people actually doing the work. Again very short and simple.

This is all of the documentation that we utilize, and I had no problem getting AS9101 registered.

I hope that this helps.

 

[Hoeyster]

AS 9100a contains the same note under 4.2.1. Section 4.2 of the standard will tell you pretty much all you need to know and it appears to be pretty flexible to allow for operations of different size and complexity.

If you interpret the AS 9100a standard literally, you will find that it requires a quality manual and only five “documented procedures”. Since we (my company) have not been through an AS 9100 rev A audit yet, I am not sure how our registrar will interpret the standard. I reality, we have quite a few “documented procedures”……..probably too many! The standard requires procedures in the following areas:

4.2.3, Control of Documents
4.2.4, Control of Records
8.3, Control of Nonconforming Product
8.5.2, Corrective Action
8.5.3, Preventive Action

Work instructions are the “meat” of the quality system but they can take many different forms (keep this in mind and be creative). The number and type will depend on the size and complexity of the organization.

As for records, they are the evidence that you are doing what your quality system documents say you will do. Again, the amount depends on the size and complexity of you operation.

I think it is critical that your chosen registrar understands your operation. Shop around for a registrar/auditor who has experience with smaller facilities/operations.

Good luck.

OK you lost me here Badgerman. Where and how does it say that you only need 5 procedures. I am inexperienced in AS9100B but have been given the task of implementing our QMS system. I come from a small precision machining of aerospace parts mom and pop shop (26 employees). I want to do the bare minimum to become compliant. If I only have to have 5 procedures I will focus my energies on those 5.
Can you help me out here?

 

[BadgerMan]

Compare the 9K2K format to the old revison '94 of ISO and you will see that the requirement for "documented procedures" has been relaxed significantly.

Read Note 1 in section 4.2.1 of the standard and then search the standard for the phrase "documented procedure".

I count six in total. However, sections 7.5.1.2 and 7.5.1.3 also kinda sorta maybe indicate the need for a procedure too. So, worst case....eight "documented procedures".

Now, I would imagine if there is evidence that the system or process is not well defined (via other methods) someone like an auditor may suggest that a "procedure" is lacking. By other methods I mean things like signs, labels, flow charts, training modules, etc.