AS9100 and the VERY small business

M

M Wombat

#1
I have a very small manufacturing company that designs and produces critical parts for aerospace. I must be AS9100 compliant in a short time. Everyone wears many hats here. We bought this company shortly after it emerged from bankruptcy many years ago. The cause was "too many chiefs" and too much paperwork. I can't let that happen again.
How can I find out what the MINIMUM is for records and documentation? Why do we need to have and document so many "meetings" when there are only 3 people in management that do all the engineering, purchasing, non-conf analysis, planning, etc.? I cannot see how all this new documentation is going to improve our quality! Our failure/discrepancy rate is almost nil now!
Any input? Anyone?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Hi there, and welcome to the Cove.:D

First of all, I must admit that my knowledge of AS 9100 is next to nil... Ok, it is nil...

In ISO9001, however there is a clause (4.2.1, note 2) that says:

The extent of the qualitymanagement system documentation can differ from one organization to another due to

a) the size of organization and type of activities,
b) the complexity of processes and their interactions, and
c) the competence of personnel.


That allows some leeway for small organisations. Hopefully you can find something similar in AS9100...

/Claes

P.s. I also took the liberty to redirect your post to the AS9100 forum. Hopefully, that will provide you with more and better answers.
 
#3
AS 9100a contains the same note under 4.2.1. Section 4.2 of the standard will tell you pretty much all you need to know and it appears to be pretty flexible to allow for operations of different size and complexity.

If you interpret the AS 9100a standard literally, you will find that it requires a quality manual and only five “documented procedures”. Since we (my company) have not been through an AS 9100 rev A audit yet, I am not sure how our registrar will interpret the standard. I reality, we have quite a few “documented procedures”……..probably too many! The standard requires procedures in the following areas:

4.2.3, Control of Documents
4.2.4, Control of Records
8.3, Control of Nonconforming Product
8.5.2, Corrective Action
8.5.3, Preventive Action

Work instructions are the “meat” of the quality system but they can take many different forms (keep this in mind and be creative). The number and type will depend on the size and complexity of the organization.

As for records, they are the evidence that you are doing what your quality system documents say you will do. Again, the amount depends on the size and complexity of you operation.

I think it is critical that your chosen registrar understands your operation. Shop around for a registrar/auditor who has experience with smaller facilities/operations.

Good luck.
 
R

Raptorwild

#4
I also work for a very small company a total of 6 people. We are ISO 9001 reg. and AS9100 compliant. We are going for another compliance audit this month. In the next year I plan on getting rid of all 20 procedures, revamping them into processes and slimming down to the required 5 or 6. I am coming to realize that it is not as difficult as first it seems. You really only have to;
Say what you Do.
Do what you Say.
Prove it.
Improve it.
I am sure your company is already doing this, its just a matter of putting it into a process that works for you. I THINK...:rolleyes:
 
W

Withrow

#5
I had similar concerns about AS9000, well AS9100 to be exact. You only need the five procedures documented, that is true, but there is also the documentation that you have to keep for quality records and meeting minutes.

Of course you need to keep you quality records, inspection and test records, etc., but with meetings, I finally got a clear translation on what is needed.

You have to show proof that executive management is kept up to date on what is going on with the company concerning quality and process's. This is done with a meeting summary and a written statement by the chief executive officer in the meeting, stating his or her opinion on the information that they just received. We only have to do this on our "Managers meeting" when each section reports for the month. The meeting is once a month, seven sections and the meeting summary is two pages, very brief.

The only other meeting documentation that you need is to document supervisor meetings with general staff to show managements commitment to flowing down process, quality and customer concerns to the people actually doing the work. Again very short and simple.

This is all of the documentation that we utilize, and I had no problem getting AS9101 registered.

I hope that this helps.
 
H

Hoeyster

#6
BadgerMan said:
AS 9100a contains the same note under 4.2.1. Section 4.2 of the standard will tell you pretty much all you need to know and it appears to be pretty flexible to allow for operations of different size and complexity.

If you interpret the AS 9100a standard literally, you will find that it requires a quality manual and only five “documented procedures”. Since we (my company) have not been through an AS 9100 rev A audit yet, I am not sure how our registrar will interpret the standard. I reality, we have quite a few “documented procedures”……..probably too many! The standard requires procedures in the following areas:

4.2.3, Control of Documents
4.2.4, Control of Records
8.3, Control of Nonconforming Product
8.5.2, Corrective Action
8.5.3, Preventive Action

Work instructions are the “meat” of the quality system but they can take many different forms (keep this in mind and be creative). The number and type will depend on the size and complexity of the organization.

As for records, they are the evidence that you are doing what your quality system documents say you will do. Again, the amount depends on the size and complexity of you operation.

I think it is critical that your chosen registrar understands your operation. Shop around for a registrar/auditor who has experience with smaller facilities/operations.

Good luck.
OK you lost me here Badgerman. Where and how does it say that you only need 5 procedures. I am inexperienced in AS9100B but have been given the task of implementing our QMS system. I come from a small precision machining of aerospace parts mom and pop shop (26 employees). I want to do the bare minimum to become compliant. If I only have to have 5 procedures I will focus my energies on those 5.
Can you help me out here?
 
#7
Compare the 9K2K format to the old revison '94 of ISO and you will see that the requirement for "documented procedures" has been relaxed significantly.

Read Note 1 in section 4.2.1 of the standard and then search the standard for the phrase "documented procedure".

I count six in total. However, sections 7.5.1.2 and 7.5.1.3 also kinda sorta maybe indicate the need for a procedure too. So, worst case....eight "documented procedures".

Now, I would imagine if there is evidence that the system or process is not well defined (via other methods) someone like an auditor may suggest that a "procedure" is lacking. By other methods I mean things like signs, labels, flow charts, training modules, etc.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
B The beginning of very general and not intriguing AS9100 questions AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
L AS9100 - Product and Service Provision 8.5.1q AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
T Temperature Requirements For In House Calibration - AS9100 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 16
T What does AS9100 mean when it says you must establish a process to do X? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 24
G Tool tracebility and First calibration requirements for aerospace (AS9100) organisation AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
T Internal Nonconformance procedure thoughts (AS9100) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
A AS9100 Training - Where do I start? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 12
SocalSurfer Can you recommend an enterprise QMS for new AS9100 startup AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
L Open Positions During AS9100 Audit AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
SocalSurfer AS9100 new certificate, but need QMS software, help Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 2
C AS9120 or AS9100 Cert pertaining to inventory? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 0
H AS9100 Checklist for Internal Audit needed AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
hockeyhead Existing process never included in AS9100 scope of certification AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 10
W Major NCRs within AS9100 - What is the most frequent reason for Major NCRs? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
Q AS9100:2016 D - Intent of 8.4.3 (K) - Implement QMS AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
was named killer AS9100 Supplier Approval Requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 10
R AS9100 - 8.4.2 - Receiving Inspection Requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
B AS9100 8.4.1 Supplier Selection/Evaluation criteria and reevaluations AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 13
S Effective nonconforming process for AS9100 8.7 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
O Adding ISO 13485 to an AS9100 QMS ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 10
M Customers Request AS9100 certification - Small Company (less than 20 employees) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
NDesouza AS9100 - D Capacity Planning Requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
D ISO 9001 & AS9100 Certificate issued by a consultant for a Distributor Registrars and Notified Bodies 11
B FAR/Prime Contractor Flow-down Tool - AS9100 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
K AS9100 - 7.3 - Are these black and white questions with specific correct answers AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
A Does AS9100 require traceability to operators performing the work? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
R Traceability on Unmarked Parts - AS9100 requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
M When is FAI required? AS9100 8.5.1.3 and 8.4.3 requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 9
M Ethics and Legality AS9100 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
K Counterfeit parts prevention - Audit Nonconformance - AS9100 8.2.2 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 25
classical_quality AS9100 Surveillance Audit - advice on drafting strong responses AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 11
L AS9100 - Infrastructure or Product? Inflight internet connectivity network AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
C AS9100 Rev D 8.1.1 & APQP - Operational risk management process AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 0
T AS9100 - Changing PEARs target AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 41
R AS9100 DELTA FAI - Sub-supplier for plating changed AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
G AS9100-8.1.2 Configuration Management AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
R AS9100 REV D gap analysis matrix AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
Sidney Vianna Informational New IAQG Document - AS9100 Clarifications of Intent AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
E Recommendations for CBs south of England AS9100 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
T Was Just told we could ONLY buy material for AS9100 customers if the DISTRIBUTION house is AS9100 / AS9120 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
E AS9100 installtion procedure AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 0
Q Connecting AS9100 D Clause 4.2 to 9.3.2 b - Interested parties and relevant issues AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 24
D AS9100 Inspection records - Is there a requirement to have gauge ID and calibration status AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
O Identifying KPI for AS9100 8.1.4 - Prevention of Counterfeit Parts - PCB assembly contract manufacturer AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 16
L AS9100 and Agile development processes AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
I Is this a Major AS9100 QMS change - Quality Concerns AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
C E signatures on Engineering Change Notes AS9100 / AS9116 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
T QMS Training for my organization - IATF16949 and also AS9100 or 9145 Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
W Tying the need for Demand Planning to a section of AS9100/9110 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
bryan willemot Documenting past problem history for fasteners for AS9100 Rev D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom