AS9100 AQMS AEA Qualification Audits 4 Full QMS

#1
I am working on my path to be qualified AEA through Industry work experience.
Is there anyone can explain me the requirement of "4 full QMS audits conducted for a total of 20 days"?
I wanted to know If QMS "ISO9001" audits can be considered as full QMS audits even it is surveillance audits (Annual)? Or it must be "recertification Audits" in regards to "Full".
I.e. surveillance audits may not cover the all the standards of ISO9001.
In other word, in order to count surveillance audit as a "full", Do I have to cover all the standards of the ISO9001 during surveillance audits?
Please share your thought and experience on this matter.
 
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howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#2
I am working on my path to be qualified AEA through Industry work experience.
Is there anyone can explain me the requirement of "4 full QMS audits conducted for a total of 20 days"?
I wanted to know If QMS "ISO9001" audits can be considered as full QMS audits even it is surveillance audits (Annual)? Or it must be "recertification Audits" in regards to "Full".
I.e. surveillance audits may not cover the all the standards of ISO9001.
In other word, in order to count surveillance audit as a "full", Do I have to cover all the standards of the ISO9001 during surveillance audits?
Please share your thought and experience on this matter.
CB surveillance audits do not cover the full QMS, so they don't count. CB recertification audits are full QMS audits so they would count. Complete ISO 9001 audits are full QMS audits so they would count. The audits need to be independent of the organization you work for, so internal audits wouldn't count, but supplier audits would count.
 
#3
Thanks for reply, I am conducting audit as CB external auditor.
So to be clear, even if I do cover all the standard clauses in the surveillance audit on purpose, it wont count Complete ISO 9001 audits?
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#4
Thanks for reply, I am conducting audit as CB external auditor.
So to be clear, even if I do cover all the standard clauses in the surveillance audit on purpose, it wont count Complete ISO 9001 audits?
Could you realistically cover all processes and all requirements in the amount of time allocated to a surveillance audit? In my experience as a CB auditor I have rarely had time to do more than what falls within the scope of a surveillance audit in the time given.

Technically the wording in the requirement doesn't use the words "surveillance" or "recertification" so it may be accepted. The determination will be made by the auditor authentication body. Which authentication body are you using? They should have an audit log form that you'll need to record your audits on. Look at the wording that they use on the form. If it uses the words "full QMS" or "partial QMS" then you may be able to include a surveillance audit as long as you actually audit the full system. When I was going through the process they contacted the organizations I audited and asked about some of the details of the audit conducted and my role in the audit.
 
#5
Could you realistically cover all processes and all requirements in the amount of time allocated to a surveillance audit? In my experience as a CB auditor I have rarely had time to do more than what falls within the scope of a surveillance audit in the time given.

Technically the wording in the requirement doesn't use the words "surveillance" or "recertification" so it may be accepted. The determination will be made by the auditor authentication body. Which authentication body are you using? They should have an audit log form that you'll need to record your audits on. Look at the wording that they use on the form. If it uses the words "full QMS" or "partial QMS" then you may be able to include a surveillance audit as long as you actually audit the full system. When I was going through the process they contacted the organizations I audited and asked about some of the details of the audit conducted and my role in the audit.
I was filling out form by "PROBITAS AUTHENTICATION" . it uses the words "full QMS" or "partial QMS".
In another argument that, even it is re-certification audit. Most of the recertification audits conducted by 2 auditors not solo. How this "full" requirement applies in team audits? You need to distribute Standard clauses between team members. Log doesnt specify that only solo full QMS acceptable. Log actually allows you both Solo, and team audits. Any comment on this Team Audit vs Solo? All Full audits must be solo or team is OK? and if Team OK how it will be full?
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#6
I was filling out form by "PROBITAS AUTHENTICATION" . it uses the words "full QMS" or "partial QMS".
In another argument that, even it is re-certification audit. Most of the recertification audits conducted by 2 auditors not solo. How this "full" requirement applies in team audits? You need to distribute Standard clauses between team members. Log doesnt specify that only solo full QMS acceptable. Log actually allows you both Solo, and team audits. Any comment on this Team Audit vs Solo? All Full audits must be solo or team is OK? and if Team OK how it will be full?
Team audits are fine. The audit needs to be a full system, but you don't have to cover all parts of they system or standard in the audit. When I applied (before Probitas existed) the audit log asked for clauses audited. Ideally you should cover all parts of the standard in the series of audits that you submit, but Probitas doesn't ask for that information in their audit log form. I've found that Probitas is very easy to work with.
 
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