AS9100, Clause 8.5.1.3 - First Article Inspection Costs

CanadianQA

Starting to get Involved
#1
Hi All,

We are moving down the road to our AS9100:2016 certification with our stage 2 planned for early January. I'm finding our FAI process very cumbersome and am looking for some input in ways to make it not take so much time. Our current process involves:

1. Bubbling the characteristics on the drawing (could be anywhere from 5 to 500 depending on the part being made.
2. Transferring all the characteristic and requirement data from the drawings to our AS9102 based FAI forms (this is a manual typed process on a fillable pdf form).
3. Inspector fills out the results sections of the form then forwards the form for applicable review.

It can take 4-5 hours to get one part processed! Is that a normal amount of time for an FAI?

Is using AS9102 forms a mistake when there has been no specification made to use AS9102 requirements? Is there any software out there that handles bubbling drawings / transferring the characteristic and requirement data to the recording forms? Can we exempt certain parts from FAI requriemetns but still meet AS9100 requirements? How do you handle FAI when a customer has only given us a sample of a part to make?

My General Manager had a bit of a freak out today about "how we're supposed to make money when we have to FAI every new part". Any input on how others are handling this process more efficiently are greatly appreciated.
 
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dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
Hi All,

We are moving down the road to our AS9100:2016 certification with our stage 2 planned for early January. I'm finding our FAI process very cumbersome and am looking for some input in ways to make it not take so much time. Our current process involves:

1. Bubbling the characteristics on the drawing (could be anywhere from 5 to 500 depending on the part being made.
2. Transferring all the characteristic and requirement data from the drawings to our AS9102 based FAI forms (this is a manual typed process on a fillable pdf form).
3. Inspector fills out the results sections of the form then forwards the form for applicable review.

It can take 4-5 hours to get one part processed! Is that a normal amount of time for an FAI?

Is using AS9102 forms a mistake when there has been no specification made to use AS9102 requirements? Is there any software out there that handles bubbling drawings / transferring the characteristic and requirement data to the recording forms? Can we exempt certain parts from FAI requriemetns but still meet AS9100 requirements? How do you handle FAI when a customer has only given us a sample of a part to make?

My General Manager had a bit of a freak out today about "how we're supposed to make money when we have to FAI every new part". Any input on how others are handling this process more efficiently are greatly appreciated.

So what happened to the original prints?

Second - ask your customers if they would accept grouping families or similar parts with identical features but different diameter.

third - do the FAIR as the customer demand them - not all of them at a time.

and finally, each feature takes approximately 2 minutes - based on complexity - so do the math.
 

Big Jim

Trusted Information Resource
#3
First of all, you don't need the detail of AS9102 unless a customer requires it. AS9100D 8.5.1.3 requires much less than AS9102. AS9102 IS NOT a requirement of AS9100D.

AS9100D essentially requires that a representative sample of the first production run be evaluated to confirm that the process verification activities are able to products that meet requirements. It requires keeping records of that evaluation. It doesn't tell you the method or format of the records.

You may be making too much of all of this.

If a customer requires AS9102 then you need the detail you have encountered. Make sure you allow for it when bidding. Some customers allow it as a line item. Even if they don't allow for it as a line item, cover it somewhere. You shouldn't be doing it for free.

I'm sure others will chime in with methods and techniques to become more effecient than you seem to be now.
 

William55401

Involved In Discussions
#4
FAI productivity software exists. I am working a project to validate DISCUS for a medical device organization. The tool helps you create ballooned drawings and FAI data sheets. Full disclosure: I did not select the software and was not aware of alternates. I am also not affiliated with the DISCUS org. If you are in an org where you do not have to validate the s/w, this tool may help you get running more quickly.
 

Eredhel

Quality Manager
#5
AS9102 FAI forms are not a requirement of the AS9100 standard. If your customers aren't requiring the AS9102 forms then you don't have to use them.
 

CanadianQA

Starting to get Involved
#6
So what happened to the original prints?

Second - ask your customers if they would accept grouping families or similar parts with identical features but different diameter.

third - do the FAIR as the customer demand them - not all of them at a time.

and finally, each feature takes approximately 2 minutes - based on complexity - so do the math.
First: There never were any original prints. The customer (our sister company) takes a part and says, "here, make us a bunch of these".

Second: It's not really realistic for us to ask this of all our customers. We have several. The parts are not really that similar.

Third: How does that meet the requirement of 8.5.1.3? I didn't think you could say that you meet clauses of the standard only when the customer requests them?

Finally: Yes, I realize that each feature takes maybe that amount of time to measure, however there's the bubbling of the drawing and the entering of the data. I'm looking for ways to reduce the time it takes to do all of this.
 
Last edited:

CanadianQA

Starting to get Involved
#7
First of all, you don't need the detail of AS9102 unless a customer requires it. AS9100D 8.5.1.3 requires much less than AS9102. AS9102 IS NOT a requirement of AS9100D.
That's a huge relief! What do you suggest for a FAI process then? The only experience I have with FAI is AS9102, so what other means would meet the requirement?

AS9100D essentially requires that a representative sample of the first production run be evaluated to confirm that the process verification activities are able to products that meet requirements. It requires keeping records of that evaluation. It doesn't tell you the method or format of the records.

You may be making too much of all of this.
I'm quite sure you're right!

If a customer requires AS9102 then you need the detail you have encountered. Make sure you allow for it when bidding. Some customers allow it as a line item. Even if they don't allow for it as a line item, cover it somewhere. You shouldn't be doing it for free.

I'm sure others will chime in with methods and techniques to become more effecient than you seem to be now.
I would really appreciate it if someone could post their NON AS9102 FAI form that they are using.

Thansk Big Jim.
 

Big Jim

Trusted Information Resource
#8
I hope someone post their form too.

However, think in terms of the minimum you would need to record to show that your representative sample demonstrates that your equipment, any software programs (CNC programming for the part), Work Order (Traveler, Router, or whatever you call it in your shop), Work Instructions (if you have deemed any are needed), and employee competency come together to make the part correctly.
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#9
That's a huge relief! What do you suggest for a FAI process then? The only experience I have with FAI is AS9102, so what other means would meet the requirement?

Plan your review of the requirements to determine what needs to me measured. Put those dimensions on the traveler and measure parts per your internal AQL and document the results on the traveler as well.


If you want to be extra safe, send that determination to your 'customer' for approval as part of the process (prior to acceptance).



Hypothetical:

AS9102 talks about what do you do if you get a digital product definition. What would you do then?
 

Michael_M

Trusted Information Resource
#10
We have to do AS9102 for most of our customers, however for the AS9100d requirements, do you perform a setup inspection and record the data somehow (we write the setup dimensions directly onto the print and scan that onto our server).
 
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