AS9100 internal auditors - Accredited training required?

[howste]

This week I was teaching an accredited AS9100 training course, and had a question raised by an attendee. She was attending the course in response to a nonconformity from a registrar. The finding was that the organization did not "...meet the auditor training requirements of AIR 5359 and AIR 5493..." They wanted to issue it as a major, but backed down to a minor.

I responded that there is no requirement that AS9100 internal audits had to be done by someone who had completed accredited training. I've searched both AIR5359 and AIR5493 and can't seem to find anything that requires what their auditor was talking about. Does anybody else have some insight one this one?

 

[Marc]

I thought Sidney might be able to help on this one. Hmmmm...

 

[Bill Pflanz]

If no one in the organization had received formal training in AIR 5359 and AIR 5493 (or any other ISO quality standards that may apply), then I can see why a registrar may question the internal auditing. Accredidation would solve the problem but I would think attending "an accredited AS9100 training course" such as the one you are teaching should be sufficient training.

The fact that the registrar backed off the major conformity indicates that the person was not confident enough with their own accredidation to carry through with the finding. I would even challenge the minor nonconformance to obtain a better understanding of the requirements.

If the internal auditor was planning on teaching the standards to others in their organization, then obtaining accredidation would give more credibility to their auditing system. I have always understood the requirements for internal auditors to less stringent than for registrars but maybe times have changed.

Bill Pflanz

 

[howste]

I thought Sidney might be able to help on this one. Hmmmm...

That's what I was hoping for when I posted...

Bill, I agree with everything you said. I was happy to have her in the class, and I think it was useful to her, but it looks like she was forced to comply with a "requirement" that didn't exist.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

I thought Sidney might be able to help on this one. Hmmmm...

Marc, for several reasons, I am not able to actively participate in the discussions as I have in the past. I hope things change and I am able to contribute more in the near future.

Concerning this specific question, the only way I could see this as a valid non-conformity would be:
1. If the organization themselves stipulated their internal auditors to undergo accredited training in line with SAE AIR 5359/5493. I have seen this in the past
2. If one of their customers had invoked it as a contractual requirement.

SAE 5359 and 5493 applies mainly to CRB auditors and OEM auditors involved with the ICOP oversight process.

Hope this helps.

 

[howste]

Thanks Sidney, that's pretty much what I figured. Maybe the registrar required it in their contract with the company...