Definition AS9100 Quality Policy and 2nd party audits

[Pitt1psu]

My company has been certified to AS9100B since 2007 and to AS9100C for 18 month. The quality policy was reviewed by our registrar when we went through re-certification. We are now being audited by the customer and he is claiming that the quality policy does not meet AS9100C since it does not define "a framework" for the quality objective. How do we argue that the "framework" is there since the registrar certified us, when this auditor states it is non-compliant?
He has also stated that since the objectives are company objectives and not all measured by quality (i.e. safety measures), that we do not have quality objectives.

 

[Reg Morrison]

Re: Quality Policy and 2nd party audits

The ISO 9001/AS9100 "requirement" for the quality policy to provide a framework to establish quality objectives bla bla bla is as clear as mud, so, what exactly the customer auditor wants to see, only him/her can clarify.

However, as for quality objectiveS (plural), s/he is correct. A safety objective is NOT a quality objective. A sales objective is NOT a quality objective. Over the years, here at the cove, we've had numerous discussions about what constitutes a quality objective.

 

[Big Jim]

Re: Quality Policy and 2nd party audits

Can you post your quality policy and quality objectives? Remove anything that mentions your company's name or other identifiers if you need. It would be easier to provide advice if we could see them.

 

[kgott]

We are now being audited by the customer and he is claiming that the quality policy does not meet AS9100C since it does not define "a framework" for the quality objective. .

I think your customer is mistaken because the 'framework' is the policy itself. I am not familiar with AS9001A-Z but I am sufficiently familiar with the ISO 9001 policy section which I am assuming is similar to whatever is in AS 9001 C.

My apologies if I am mistaken about the similarity with ISO 9001.

The idea is that the policy enables objectives to flow down relevant sections and points in the company.

For example, our safety policy is:

' All work must be done safely'

This is the framework as it enable the question to be asked 'what has to be in place for all work to be done safely' Answer = 'x' and then what has to be in place for 'x' to be achieved and so on as it flows down into the business.

To deal with your customer I would suggest you explain to them how your quality policy enables quality objectives to be set using this cascading flow.

 

[Pitt1psu]

I will have to see if I can post policy and objectives. I was surprised that the registrar never pointed out that neither the policy nor the objectives did not comply with the standard.

I will look for the posts on the quality objectives. thanks

 

[kgott]

I will have to see if I can post policy and objectives. I was surprised that the registrar never pointed out that neither the policy nor the objectives did not comply with the standard.

I will look for the posts on the quality objectives. thanks

Pitt1psu, you can have whatever policy and objectives you like, Do not let the auditor start dictatating these. It is for your organisation to determine what they want out of their quality system and any other other management system for that matter. It is not for an auditor to determine whether or not your policy or objectives are appropriate or not.

Just remember, that your objectives need to be measurable, achievable and realistic and have focus towards contributing to the business achieving its purpose.

Management systems are tools business leadership uses for managing the business so an objective for any management system would be to have an efficient and effective tool to enable management to effectively manage the subject matter the management system relates to.

 

[Reg Morrison]

Pitt1psu, you can have whatever policy and objectives you like, Do not let the auditor start dictatating these. It is for your organisation to determine what they want out of their quality system and any other other management system for that matter. It is not for an auditor to determine whether or not your policy or objectives are appropriate or not.

As long as the policy and objectives satisfy the requirements of the standard, it is up to the organization to decide and define them. However, not every business objective satisfies the requirements for quality objectives and an auditor performing a QMS audit against ISO 9001 and AS9100 is within his/her rights to reject non-quality objectives as quality objectives.