AS9100 Recertification Audits - How much in advance of the Certificate Expiration

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
Looking for guidance in dealing with registrar that arbitrarily are changing the re-certification date to an earlier date (90 days) from original certification date. some of my customers are complaining that the 3 years are not actually 3 years but 2 years and 9 months.

Any advice or information that I could provide the customers? :confused:
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
T

Taliesyn

#2
Re: Calculations of audit days are being changed by registrar.

Our TS CB did the same thing but argued that the TS rules about closure of NCRs etc. and the absolute time limit for the recertification audit mean that they have to do the audit earlier. My feeling - one way to boost cash flow but I'm possibly a little too cynical!
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: Calculation of Audit Man Days are being changed by Registrar

Looking for guidance in dealing with registrar that arbitrarily are changing the re-certification date to an earlier date (90 days) from original certification date. some of my customers are complaining that the 3 years are not actually 3 years but 2 years and 9 months.

Any advice or information that I could provide the customers? :confused:
AS9101D 4.3.5 has this recommendation:
The recertification audit should be planned a minimum of three months before the expiry date of the current certificate.
There are obvious risks if an organization has a recertification audit too close to the certificate expiry date. The IAQG realizes that, confronted with a deadline and the supply chain's perennial inability to perform robust root cause analysis as part of corrective action process, sometimes auditors are "pressured" to accept less than ideal solutions to avoid a certification lapse of the customers. Since all NC's have to be closed, before a new certificate can be issued, the registrant's certificate might experience a validity lapse, which could bring a different set of problems.

As in most cases, there are risks, which must be managed.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Re: Calculation of Audit Man Days are being changed by Registrar

AS9101D 4.3.5 has this recommendation:
There are obvious risks if an organization has a recertification audit too close to the certificate expiry date. The IAQG realizes that, confronted with a deadline and the supply chain's perennial inability to perform robust root cause analysis as part of corrective action process, sometimes auditors are "pressured" to accept less than ideal solutions to avoid a certification lapse of the customers. Since all NC's have to be closed, before a new certificate can be issued, the registrant's certificate might experience a validity lapse, which could bring a different set of problems.

As in most cases, there are risks, which must be managed.
Sidney - totally agree - the issue is that the recertification date is diferent than the original certification date. Example, Company xyz was originally certified on 1/1/2012, but heire certificate shows that the expiration date is October 1, 2014. which means that they need to have the reregistration audit in June 2014. thus, they have lost 3 months of paid certification time.

Any thoughts or procedures that prevent this from happening?

Right now all I could read is the in AS9104-1

8.2.5 - Upgrading from ISO 9001 to an Aerospace Quality Management System Standard When auditing organizations with an existing ISO 9001 certificate, that are upgrading to an AQMS standard, a full initial audit (Stage 1 and Stage 2) of all requirements for the applicable AQMS standard (i.e., ISO 9001 and aviation, space, and defense industry additional requirements) applying the 9101 standard is required. Audit duration shall comply with Table 2 and be calculated using the "Initial" audit column.
.

but what I am looking for is for clarity into how CB should use the original audit certificate as a basis on establishing the 90 days prior to audit.

Presently, I am seeing CB moving that target date by 6 months.
 

Mikishots

Trusted Information Resource
#5
Re: Calculation of Audit Man Days are being changed by Registrar

AS9101D 4.3.5 has this recommendation:

There are obvious risks if an organization has a recertification audit too close to the certificate expiry date. The IAQG realizes that, confronted with a deadline and the supply chain's perennial inability to perform robust root cause analysis as part of corrective action process, sometimes auditors are "pressured" to accept less than ideal solutions to avoid a certification lapse of the customers. Since all NC's have to be closed, before a new certificate can be issued, the registrant's certificate might experience a validity lapse, which could bring a different set of problems.

As in most cases, there are risks, which must be managed.
Agreed - happened to us in our last re-cert. We weren't due on paper until June, but the audit occurred in April, in order to ensure that all possible NC were adequately dealt with.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
Re: Calculation of Audit Man Days are being changed by Registrar

Agreed - happened to us in our last re-cert. We weren't due on paper until June, but the audit occurred in April, in order to ensure that all possible NC were adequately dealt with.
The issue with is that it is occurring in January - 6 months prior to the original date and 3 months prior to the re-certification date... shouldn't the original date and the re-cert date be the same?:bonk:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
J

JQuality

#7
Re: Calculation of Audit Man Days are being changed by Registrar

The same thing occurred with us and our registrar, but I insisted that the new certificate reflect the same certification period. In other words, even though we had our audit 3 months earlier than the registration expired, when we received our new certificate we didn't actually lose the 3 months. It just compressed our audit schedule, not our registration period.

It didn't take much convincing to get them to go along with this approach.
 

Mikishots

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Re: Calculation of Audit Man Days are being changed by Registrar

The issue with is that it is occurring in January - 6 months prior to the original date and 3 months prior to the re-certification date... shouldn't the original date and the re-cert date be the same?:bonk:
They don't need to be. As long as it's no later.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#9
Re: Calculation of Audit Man Days are being changed by Registrar

In other words, even though we had our audit 3 months earlier than the registration expired, when we received our new certificate we didn't actually lose the 3 months. It just compressed our audit schedule, not our registration period.
I think that is the most sensible solution. Years ago, the accreditation bodies insisted that the date of the certificate was tied to the last day of the audit. That has been changed to the certification decision date. http://www.anab.org/media/4588/hu15.pdf

Please keep in mind that some customers are monitoring the certificate validity of their suppliers in OASIS and if they see that a certificate is getting really close to the expiration date, they start asking questions about the new certification.
 
Last edited:

rickpaul01

Involved in HankyPanky
#10
I agree, you are getting cheated out of 3 months. Everyone is having the audit 3 months before expiration, but are not having the expiration date changed.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
H AS9100 D - 8.1.2 Configuration Management for Build-to-Print Service Provider AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
M Transferring AS9100 to new Legal Entity AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 12
M Lapse in AS9100 Certificate AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
D AS9100 News AS9100 Rev. E? Any news? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
M Software verification and validation AS9100 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
Z AS9100 Control of Nonconforming Outputs - Rework Dispositions AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
briteme4 ASL - AS9100 / Supplier Survey Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 3
Crusader AS9100 7.5.2 NOTE Approval methods identified AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
A Can a organization use a disclaimer "pending AS9100 Certification" in Marketing Information? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
R AS9100D internal audit checklist or ISO 9001 2015 to AS9100 D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
T AS9100 audit due to facility move AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
K AS9100 and ISO9001 together AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 9
M Do AS9100 Registrar Auditors have nonconformity quotas? General Auditing Discussions 45
L Heading dies as "tooling" and AS9100 Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
L Heading dies as "tooling" and AS9100 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
F AS9100 - Validation, FAIR's, ITAR and Sub-Contracting AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
L AS9100 - Product and Service Provision 8.5.1q AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
T Temperature Requirements For In House Calibration - AS9100 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 16
T What does AS9100 mean when it says you must establish a process to do X? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 24
G Tool tracebility and First calibration requirements for aerospace (AS9100) organisation AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
T Internal Nonconformance procedure thoughts (AS9100) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
A AS9100 Training - Where do I start? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 14
SocalSurfer Can you recommend an enterprise QMS for new AS9100 startup AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
L Open Positions During AS9100 Audit AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
SocalSurfer AS9100 new certificate, but need QMS software, help Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 2
C AS9120 or AS9100 Cert pertaining to inventory? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
H AS9100 Checklist for Internal Audit needed AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
hockeyhead Existing process never included in AS9100 scope of certification AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 10
W Major NCRs within AS9100 - What is the most frequent reason for Major NCRs? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
Q AS9100:2016 D - Intent of 8.4.3 (K) - Implement QMS AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
was named killer AS9100 Supplier Approval Requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 10
R AS9100 - 8.4.2 - Receiving Inspection Requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
B AS9100 8.4.1 Supplier Selection/Evaluation criteria and reevaluations AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 13
S Effective nonconforming process for AS9100 8.7 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
O Adding ISO 13485 to an AS9100 QMS ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 13
M Customers Request AS9100 certification - Small Company (less than 20 employees) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
NDesouza AS9100 - D Capacity Planning Requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
D ISO 9001 & AS9100 Certificate issued by a consultant for a Distributor Registrars and Notified Bodies 11
B FAR/Prime Contractor Flow-down Tool - AS9100 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
K AS9100 - 7.3 - Are these black and white questions with specific correct answers AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
A Does AS9100 require traceability to operators performing the work? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
R Traceability on Unmarked Parts - AS9100 requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
M When is FAI required? AS9100 8.5.1.3 and 8.4.3 requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 10
M Ethics and Legality AS9100 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
K Counterfeit parts prevention - Audit Nonconformance - AS9100 8.2.2 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 25
classical_quality AS9100 Surveillance Audit - advice on drafting strong responses AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 11
L AS9100 - Infrastructure or Product? Inflight internet connectivity network AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
C AS9100 Rev D 8.1.1 & APQP - Operational risk management process AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
T AS9100 - Changing PEARs target AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 41
R AS9100 DELTA FAI - Sub-supplier for plating changed AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom