AS9100 Rev. D - Question about 8.4.3 (k) - Supplier Certificates

J

jwdjmd

HI,

I am doing an internal audit of procurement and I have a question on 8.3.4.k, the need to implement a quality management system.

Our company requires external providers to implement a quality management system. However, once the supplier submits their certificate, it goes into their supplier file and no one follows up to ensure that the supplier's certification is maintained.

I would like to write it up as a nonconformity but I am unsure of which clause it should be written against. Is there a clause? Or do I just write it up as an opportunity for improvement (which will fall into the black hole of OFIs) to review supplier files and reach out to those for new certificates when the old expire?

The push back I will get will be that we have 100s of suppliers but not the resources to chase down expired certificates.

Thanks for all your help!
 
Sidney Vianna

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
jwdjmd said:
However, once the supplier submits their certificate, it goes into their supplier file and no one follows up to ensure that the supplier's certification is maintained.
Click to expand...
What standard(s) are the suppliers required to be certified to? AS9100? ISO 9001?

If you require suppliers to be certified to AS9100 via the IAQG ICOP Scheme, they are listed in OASIS and OASIS allows you to set up tracking mechanisms for certified suppliers that would alert you if a certificate is suspended, revoked or expired.

For ISO 9001 certificates, there is no such thing.
 
howste

howste

Thaumaturge
Trusted Information Resource
8.4.3k talks about your organization communicating its requirements to your suppliers. 8.4.1 says you need to "determine and apply criteria for the evaluation, selection..., and re-evaluation of external providers."

Do you know if your organization has a requirement for your suppliers to maintain their certifications? If so, that's the requirement you would write an NC against. If not, it may fall into the black hole you described.
 
M

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
Think about this carefully: what is your company’s true intent here?

Is it that they simply “implement a quality management system” which “can be” satisfied by an AS9100 or ISO90012 certification? That’s what you said here. Is that really what you want?

If I implemented a QMS that I say is compliant with (but not certified to) ISO9001, am I okay? By your words so far, I would say that I have not violated any of your requirements. Same if I implemented a QMS based on old MIL-I-45208A.

First you have to know what you want and clearly communicate that to your suppliers. If you want them to have, and maintain, an AS9100 or ISO9001 certified QMS then you need to clearly state that. Maybe in your flowdown require them to notify you if there is any change in their certified status. Maybe you will want to audit them occasionally and ask for a copy of their certificate on occasion. Etc.

Don’t write someone up if the requirement is not clear – unless you write yourself up for an unclear requirement! :cool:
 
J

jwdjmd

Ok, I did a little more digging based on your responses. Our Supplier Handbook states that "It is expected that suppliers maintain compliance to industry quality management system requirements (AS9100, ISO 9001, ISO 13485, TS16949)".

Does that help clarify my question?

Now since suppliers are asked to maintain a certification, wouldn't our company be on the hook to verify that they remain certified, and since no one here actually does it we have a nonconformity?

What I am trying to avoid is having our registrar ask for supplier files and then write us up when certifications are out of date. It seems like a a no brainer to me but then....

 
B

Big Jim

Admin
jwdjmd said:
Ok, I did a little more digging based on your responses. Our Supplier Handbook states that "It is expected that suppliers maintain compliance to industry quality management system requirements (AS9100, ISO 9001, ISO 13485, TS16949)".

Does that help clarify my question?

Now since suppliers are asked to maintain a certification, wouldn't our company be on the hook to verify that they remain certified, and since no one here actually does it we have a nonconformity?

What I am trying to avoid is having our registrar ask for supplier files and then write us up when certifications are out of date. It seems like a a no brainer to me but then....
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if this to the heart of the matter, but as a side note you would be nuts to require all of your suppliers to be certified.

First of all, you could paint yourself into the corner you have described. But most of all you would limit yourself from suppliers that can meet your needs that are not certified.

I have two clients that are getting aerospace plating work that are not certified because the NADCAP suppliers cannot provide the work needed and he can. The NADCAP suppliers can show that they followed the process, but the plating is not satisfactory.

Even if you prefer to use certified suppliers, NEVER close the door to other viable options.
 
M

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
You are using "compliance" and "certification" as though they mean the same thing, but they don't.

Again....think about this carefully: what is your company’s true intent here?
 
J

jwdjmd

You are absolutely correct. We ask them to maintain conformance not certify. My interpretation is definitely incorrect. Maintaining conformance is not a requirement for certification. :eek::eek:
 
I

Illek

If we have a supplier who is not certified but someone the customer needs us to use we perform risk analysis. Even if they are high risk we can still use them just note how we will mitigate the risks. Wish we hadn't set expiry dates to match the AS9100 cert dates. September is going to be a pain this year. :bonk:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
D AS9100 Rev D - Clause 8.7 Control of Non conforming outputs AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
D AS9100 News AS9100 Rev. E? Any news? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
C AS9100 Rev D 8.1.1 & APQP - Operational risk management process AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
R AS9100 REV D gap analysis matrix AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
bryan willemot Documenting past problem history for fasteners for AS9100 Rev D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
A Definition of "Sensitive Products" Clause 8.5.4 (c) in AS9100 Rev. D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
M AS9100 Rev D and Pin Gages General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 7
S General Awareness Training for AS9100 Rev.D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
P How To Transition From AS9100c to AS9100 Rev. D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
C AS9100 rev D 8.5.1 c 2 - Defining the Machine in-process frequency per ANSI/ASQ Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 8
P AS9100 rev D Quality Manual wanted - 2017 Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 4
A AS9100 Rev D - Procedure for Product Safety & Control of Counterfeit Part (Format) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
M AS9100 Rev. D Transition Audit - Number of Audit Days AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
Q AS9100 Rev.D Transfer of Work - Procedure and form templates AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
A AS9100 Rev:D in Spanish - where can I find a Spanish version? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
O How will you handle Clause 6.1 - Risks and Opportunities for AS9100 Rev. D Auditors? Risk Management Principles and Generic Guidelines 22
A AS9100 Rev D - List of Required Procedures Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 5
B AS9100 Rev D - Traceability of Consumables AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
K AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 19
J AS9100 Rev D Quality Manual Rewritten - Feedback Appreciated Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 13
K AS9100 Rev. D Transition - Internal Audits & Gap Analysis Requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 14
B AS9100 Rev D Quality Manual - How are you organizing? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 9
B AS9100 Rev D Sequence and Interactions of Processes - How in depth do I need to go? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 9
D Design and Development Procedure example and Template wanted - AS9100 Rev D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
O Guidance and/or assistance on Transition to AS9100 Rev D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 11
Mikishots Definition Issue - "Issue" vs. "Risk" in ISO 9001:2015 and AS9100 Rev D (Definitions) Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 2
howste AS9100 Rev D Clause 10.2 - Is Cause always required? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 39
Kronos147 Quality Manager's Role in AS9100 Rev. D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 9
M AS9100 Rev. D - Can anyone recommend a good reference book? Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 7
T What is the Rev C equivalent for an RABQSA AS9100 Certified Lead Auditor course? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
G AS9100 Rev. C - Records created and/or maintained by Suppliers AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
F Gap Analysis Matrix for AS9100 Rev C to TS16949:2009 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
R AS9100:2016 Rev. D - Status and Information - May 2014 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 0
P New to AS9100 Rev. C - Setting KPIs and FAI Reports AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 14
D Calibration Requirements for AS9100 Rev C Calibration Frequency (Interval) 5
Sidney Vianna AS9100 Rev.D - The revision work has started AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
A AS9100 rev C Skill Examiner Audit to complete my RABQSA Auditor certification Career and Occupation Discussions 3
J Corrective Action Review - AS9100 Rev. C Requirement AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
N Meeting AS9100 Rev C Requirements - Major help wanted AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 27
D We received our AS9100 Rev C. certificate! Thank you! AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
K Implementing AS9100 Rev C - Electrical Harnesses and Cable Assemblies AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
G AS9100 Rev C QMSM (Quality Management System Manual) Template Required AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
T AS9100 - Upgrade to Rev C - Design & Manufacturing Plant AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
G Please recommend preparatory reading for AS9100 Rev C Lead Assessor Course AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 16
D New to AS9100 and have a REV C Audit scheduled in Feb. AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 14
S Is it required to upgrade an AS9100 B Procedure Manual to AS9100 Rev. C AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
C AS9100 Rev C Clause 8.5.2 - CAR (Corrective Action Request) Format AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 14
M AS9100 Rev C - Determining, Providing and Maintaining" Infrastructure AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
J Audit Days Requirement for AS9100, Rev C Re-Certification AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
T Upgrade Audit vs. Reassessment Audit (AS9100 Rev B to Rev C) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4

Similar threads

Top Bottom