AS9100C Clause 8.2.4 Monitoring and Measurement of Product

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
2 Question on the interpretation of:


"AS9100C 8.2.4
Measurement requirements for product acceptance shall be documented and shall include

d) any specific measurement instruments required and any specific instructions associated with their use."

What is a good definition of SPECIFIC MEASUREMENT INSTRUMENT

and

when do we stop writing specif intruments in the final report?
 
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W

w_grunfeld

#2
In my opinion what is meant here is any special purpose built measuring/checking equipment that is not a commercially available COTS
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#3
In my opinion, if a specific instrument is to be used, whether COTS or not, you need to list it.

If only an Acme Model 1234 LCR meter is to be used for a given measurement, and an Agilent or other brand LCR meter would not be acceptable for some reason, you would state that only the Acme 1234 is to be used.

If the Acme 1234 is only to be used with a certain test voltage, you would state that.

If the Acme 1234 or any similar LCR meter can be used, you might list the Acme 1234 or equivalent, or you might list the make/model of several acceptable units.

Does this make sense? Does it answer your question?
 

Mikishots

Trusted Information Resource
#4
2 Question on the interpretation of:


"AS9100C 8.2.4
Measurement requirements for product acceptance shall be documented and shall include

d) any specific measurement instruments required and any specific instructions associated with their use."

What is a good definition of SPECIFIC MEASUREMENT INSTRUMENT

and

when do we stop writing specif intruments in the final report?
A specific measurement instrument can be an item that has been certified for specific use in order to show compliance. An example: An aircraft scale for weight and balance reports. In my workplace, we have a set of scales that is certified by Measurement Canada in order to be accepted for use under Transport Canada rules. We have to identify the make, model, serial number and last certification date of the scale whenever we use it for W&B measurements. We also have formal instructions for using them.

A more general example would be a conformity measurement that can only be made by a purpose-made tool or a tool that has a particular degree of accuracy require.

Not sure about your question regarding "stop writing specif requirements in the final report". I don't know what you're asking.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
Not sure about your question regarding "stop writing specif requirements in the final report". I don't know what you're asking.
OK - the background....


Many top Aerospace companies would make a request to meet AS9102 requirements. Then they ask to complete "their" AS9102 forms. Those form are similar to AS9102 except for form 3 block 14. These blocks have additional requirements. The customer is requiring that the customer provides the specific measuring instrument that accepts the final product.

Once they have done that, they also want you to submit a quality plan that demonstrate measuring devices that accepts the product (AS9100C element 8.2.4d) during the production process.

Furthermore, they do emphasize that this is done in order to demonstrate effectiveness of the inspection process and to enhance the recall process of product more effective.

The logic is that once a complaint against a product is determined - the supplier should be able to go and find the affected measuring device that accepted that product AND to identified which other products were also accepted with that specific measuring device.

Thus the question....

"When do we stop writing specific measuring instruments requirements in the final report" - ex.. micrometer, vernires plug gages etc.
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#6
If I understand correctly, it sounds like your customer wants you to always record the measuring device used for any recorded measurement. But without seeing the exact requirement, I am only guessing.

Why not just ask the customer exactly what their expectation is?
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
If I understand correctly, it sounds like your customer wants you to always record the measuring device used for any recorded measurement. But without seeing the exact requirement, I am only guessing.

Why not just ask the customer exactly what their expectation is?
I did - and yes the big guys want that information for recall purposes of the products and identification of other affected products accepted with the specific measuring instruments.

Thanks for the inputs.
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#8
...information for recall purposes of the products and identification of other affected products accepted with the specific measuring instruments.
Funny, that discussion came up in an internal audit yesterday. Specific tool ID on the 9102 form. Double edged sword:

1) Can limit your exposure and scope of recall if that tool is found to be out of calibration

2) Can lead to ticky tack findings where the ID was skipped on the report
 

dgriffith

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
I did - and yes the big guys want that information for recall purposes of the products and identification of other affected products accepted with the specific measuring instruments.

Thanks for the inputs.
Yes, reverse traceability. This from AS9100C, paraphrasing:
(SAE) AS9100C, 8.3 Control of Non-Conforming Product, (d): by taking action appropriate to the effects of the non-conformity when detected. (e): by taking actions necessary to contain the effect of the non-conformity on other processes or products.
This is for the recall of product in case the instruments you used were found non-conforming during recalibration.
A good reason to use a check standard with data tracking, so if that occurs, you need only recall product from the last known time the instrument was good, instead of an entire year's worth.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
Yes, reverse traceability. This from AS9100C, paraphrasing:
?(SAE) AS9100C, 8.3 Control of Non-Conforming Product, (d): by taking action appropriate to the effects of the non-conformity when detected. (e): by taking actions necessary to contain the effect of the non-conformity on other processes or products.
This is for the recall of product in case the instruments you used were found non-conforming during recalibration.
A good reason to use a check standard with data tracking, so if that occurs, you need only recall product from the last known time the instrument was good, instead of an entire year's worth.
Thanks - I will continue to write every Specific Measuring instruments so that I could also meet the requirements of 8.3 d & e.
 
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