93ramvert

Inactive Registered Visitor
#1
So we had our transistion audit for AS9110 Rev. A, one of my findings was the internal auditors were not trained to AS9110 Rev. A. Now I am having one hell of a time finding anyone who does AS9110 Rev. A internal audit training which I could take then in turn train the rest of my internal auditors. We have all been trained to ISO 9001 and AS9110, but never have we had any type of transition training, and this is the first finding for this issue. On the same finding, it was also said that internal auditors had not had process based audit training. We had 3 minor findings, so we obviously "transitioned" rather nicely, so if I took a "Process Based Audit Course" and got and internal auditor training materials package for AS9110 Rev. A and gave this course would I be covered? I am at a loss at how to close this out???
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
I am at a loss at how to close this out???
Sticking to the REQUIREMENTS of the standard, you have to explain how you ensure that your internal auditors are COMPETENT for the task at hand. In principle, training is not mandated by the standard itself, despite the fact that training is always a good component of a competence establishment process.

Focus on your process for internal auditor competence: What is it? How do you ensure it happens? That should be your corrective action plan. And, be prepared, AS9110 Rev. B is out and it will be a matter of time until you will have to adequate your system to that version of the standard.
 

Big Jim

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
A little more on Sidney's point.

Since there is no requirement to take a formal class, you can still come up with a course or study plan internal to your own company. You can study the standard itself for example. As with other needed competencies, you need to show records of how the competency for auditing was obtained.

If you would feel more comfortable with a more formal course, take an AS9100C course and then supplement it with your own study on the differences.

There is no reason that you can't make this a do-it-yourself program, or at least have some do-it-yourself portion in it.

Process based internal auditing IS NOT a requirement although it is highly desirable. If that was written as a nonconformance, you should appeal it. If it was an OFI, it is appropriate. It is the best way to audit.
 

93ramvert

Inactive Registered Visitor
#4
:confused:More on this, we are in the process of our re-assessment audit. The Training to AS9110 Rev. A came up again as the review of findings from previous audit. I argued the fact that he was now concerned with training to AS9110 Rev. B. He says well I didn't get notification of needing training for Rev. B so then you wouldn't need training to Rev. B. :bonk: O.K. I then said o.k. then, so you say I need training to Rev. A but not Rev. B, but what happens next year after you have been "hit by a bus" and I have a new auditor and he has a finding for not being trained to Rev. B. I explained it to the point of the major Revision to European Aviation Safety Agency 145 guidance, and not having the FAA or European Aviation Safety Agency require me to have training to that before I could go forward with the system, or if an OEM Spec. has changed and I can't implement it because I don't have training to the Rev. The changes are in the standard, I have had training to AS9110, IS0 9001 and AS9001, why can't I read the Standard, find the changes implement the changes and be happy! If the system is working and meets the requirements of the standard does that not tell the auditor that I may now what I'm doing???????:deadhorse:
 

Big Jim

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
:confused:More on this, we are in the process of our re-assessment audit. The Training to AS9110 Rev. A came up again as the review of findings from previous audit. I argued the fact that he was now concerned with training to AS9110 Rev. B. He says well I didn't get notification of needing training for Rev. B so then you wouldn't need training to Rev. B. :bonk: O.K. I then said o.k. then, so you say I need training to Rev. A but not Rev. B, but what happens next year after you have been "hit by a bus" and I have a new auditor and he has a finding for not being trained to Rev. B. I explained it to the point of the major Revision to European Aviation Safety Agency 145 guidance, and not having the FAA or European Aviation Safety Agency require me to have training to that before I could go forward with the system, or if an OEM Spec. has changed and I can't implement it because I don't have training to the Rev. The changes are in the standard, I have had training to AS9110, IS0 9001 and AS9001, why can't I read the Standard, find the changes implement the changes and be happy! If the system is working and meets the requirements of the standard does that not tell the auditor that I may now what I'm doing???????:deadhorse:
As I said before, there is no reason that you can't make training to the latest version of the standard a do-it-yourself project. Make sure you keep a record of whatever training you do. There is no reason you can't do exactly what you have proposed. If an auditor is telling you something different, you need to have a talk with his office.
 

kiwisfly

Registered Visitor
#6
Hi 93Ramvert,
You could always take the IAQG approved on-line training for 9100C, 9110A and 9110B. There is a test at the end of each which, if you pass, will result in you receiving a certificate of successful completion. Before your registrar auditor can undertake your audit to 9110B he too must complete the 9110B upgrade process. I mention 9100C above as there is some information related to Process Auditing in the foundations training.

The IAQG Training site is here at https://www.iaqgtraining.com/ , you will need to make contact with one of the approved training providers to purchase access to the required course(s) but it is quite straight forward.

Good Luck, :bigwave:
 

Amexx

Inactive Registered Visitor
#7
I am struggling to understand the documentation requirements for conducting an INTERNAL audit of AS9110. The AS9101 lays out the CB requirements for documentation etc. However, how much of this documentation for a CB audit is required to be used by an INTERNAL auditor?
Thanks
Paul documentation
 

AndyN

A problem shared...
Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
I am struggling to understand the documentation requirements for conducting an INTERNAL audit of AS9110. The AS9101 lays out the CB requirements for documentation etc. However, how much of this documentation for a CB audit is required to be used by an INTERNAL auditor?
Thanks
Paul documentation
Paul:
I'd suggest if there's something you might find useful, use it. Otherwise, the purpose of a CB audit and the rules are going to make it quite different to internal audits, so you may not find too much more useful.
 

Amexx

Inactive Registered Visitor
#9
Andy, thank you for the reply.
So, I take it from your comments that AS9101 forms like the Process Matrix Report and the PEAR forms, for example, are not required by a company's internal audit program but can be used if the company believes it adds value to the audit process. Concur?
Thanks again.
Paul
 

AndyN

A problem shared...
Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
Andy, thank you for the reply.
So, I take it from your comments that AS9101 forms like the Process Matrix Report and the PEAR forms, for example, are not required by a company's internal audit program but can be used if the company believes it adds value to the audit process. Concur?
Thanks again.
Paul
Correct, Paul. The Pear is I believe, quite a helpful tool for planning an audit. Try it and see if it works.
 
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