AS9120B 8.4.2a Ensuring external providers remain within control of the QMS

[ebrachhausen]

Greetings, I am working with a distributor of aluminum and steel to achieve certification to AS9120B. The firm obtains raw plate and bar stock from mills in Taiwan and Viet Nam, and stores the material at 5 for-hire warehouses throughout the U.S. The 5 warehouses are run by different companies. There is an ordinary commercial services agreement that covers typical services like storage space, transportation w/in the warehouse, splitting, outbound shipments, damage claims, etc. However, the agreement does not address QMS requirements, like preservation, handling of suspect or counterfeit goods, nonconforming material, corrective action, etc. Is there a relatively simple way to bring the for-hire warehouses under the umbrella of the company QMS, and ensure they essentially act like an extension of the organization for QMS purposes?

 

[dsanabria]

Greetings, I am working with a distributor of aluminum and steel to achieve certification to AS9120B. The firm obtains raw plate and bar stock from mills in Taiwan and Viet Nam, and stores the material at 5 for-hire warehouses throughout the U.S. The 5 warehouses are run by different companies. There is an ordinary commercial services agreement that covers typical services like storage space, transportation w/in the warehouse, splitting, outbound shipments, damage claims, etc. However, the agreement does not address QMS requirements, like preservation, handling of suspect or counterfeit goods, nonconforming material, corrective action, etc. Is there a relatively simple way to bring the for-hire warehouses under the umbrella of the company QMS, and ensure they essentially act like an extension of the organization for QMS purposes?

It appears that you are outsourcing the storage facilities to another entity (company) - flow down the requirements of 8.4.3...

Let me know if this is correct about sourcing storage to other comapnies because we need to go to the next step - 8.4.2

 

[ebrachhausen]

Hi dsanabria,

Yes, you are correct. The storage is being outsourced to for-hire facilities that each have their own location, staff, and likely other customers besides my client. It seems to make sense to flow down both 8.4.2 and 8.4.3. What about other requirements for documented information, work environment, human resources, and so on? I am having difficulty knowing where to draw the line. I have not confirmed this, but as far as I know the warehouses are not certified to either AS9120 or to ISO 9001. Any thoughts?
Regards,
Eric

 

[dsanabria]

8.4.3 should suffice - remember that even though you are outsourcing - you are the owner of the purchase order and responsible for the quality of the product.

Most companies use a document called "Terms and Conditions" or what ever you want to call it to flow down requirements.

You can also place them on your webpage, control the document and make a statement on you purchase order - in addition to unique customer requirements.

Remember, you are not running the other company / warehouse QMS.

 

[ebrachhausen]

Hi again dsanabria,
Thank you for the advice on this question. I can see that 8.4.3 is pretty comprehensive. The beginning of 8.4.3 starts off with "...shall communicate to external providers its requirements for:" and then proceeds to list (a) through (k).

Do you interpret 8.4.3 to mean that this means my distributor has the option of considering (a) through (k) and determining what its requirements will be, or that the standard is saying that (a) through (k) absolutely apply to the for-hire warehouse?

Also, have you seen instances of including components of 8.4.3 in the Ts and Cs documentation?

Regards, Eric

 

[dsanabria]

Hi again dsanabria,
Thank you for the advice on this question. I can see that 8.4.3 is pretty comprehensive. The beginning of 8.4.3 starts off with "...shall communicate to external providers its requirements for:" and then proceeds to list (a) through (k).

Do you interpret 8.4.3 to mean that this means my distributor has the option of considering (a) through (k) and determining what its requirements will be, or that the standard is saying that (a) through (k) absolutely apply to the for-hire warehouse?

Also, have you seen instances of including components of 8.4.3 in the Ts and Cs documentation?

Regards, Eric

To your last question - have you seen instances of including components of 8.4.3 in the Ts and Cs documentation? yes!

to your original question: yes - let your supplier take exception but make sure it is documented...

 

[ebrachhausen]

Hi dsanabria,
Thank you for all of the good feedback. It is very helpful!
Regards,
Eric