ASQ Professional Certification Rates are Going Up

[Govind]

Yes, according to ASQ web page, the member rates for various certifications are going up by another USD 30 and Non member rates up to USD 75 !
https://www.asq.org/portal/page?_pageid=33,32429,33_32570&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

1. Do you think this cost will affect exam takers?
Iam not sure whether this difference will affect North American exam takers. However, I think this will affect the growth of International exam takers from developing countries.

2. If ASQ has no other option but to increase, what additional value added service you think could be provided by ASQ?
I think, ASQ could send the Strength, Weakness report to all exam takers. Currently ASQ sends to those who are not successful in the exam.
There could be many exam takers who have passed on the margin of Error. There could be many who scored extremely well in one area and poor in the other area, yet passed the exam. Hence, all of us need a feedback to improve on our understanding of BOK irrespective of Exam outcome. ASQ could offer this value added service for all exam takers.

Your thoughts on my question 1 and 2 ?

Regards,
Govind.

 

[Al Dyer]

Govind,

As to do with #1, I really don't think it will deter anybody sitting for the exams, they already cost an arm and a leg, why not throw in a big toe

As to #2, I wish I could have seen the results of my exam, as said, I would hav liked to know my strengths and weaknsses.

Al...

 

[Jen Kirley]

Yes, according to ASQ web page, the member rates for various certifications are going up by another USD 30 and Non member rates up to USD 75 !
https://www.asq.org/portal/page?_pageid=33,32429,33_32570&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

1. Do you think this cost will affect exam takers?
Iam not sure whether this difference will affect North American exam takers. However, I think this will affect the growth of International exam takers from developing countries.

2. If ASQ has no other option but to increase, what additional value added service you think could be provided by ASQ?
I think, ASQ could send the Strength, Weakness report to all exam takers. Currently ASQ sends to those who are not successful in the exam.
There could be many exam takers who have passed on the margin of Error. There could be many who scored extremely well in one area and poor in the other area, yet passed the exam. Hence, all of us need a feedback to improve on our understanding of BOK irrespective of Exam outcome. ASQ could offer this value added service for all exam takers.

Your thoughts on my question 1 and 2 ?

Regards,
Govind.

1. Those who are serious about taking the exam will still do so. They likely pay more than this increase for gasoline to commute to work anyway. So, those who think certification will help them to earn more, or be more competetive in the job market, will continue to pursue it.

2a. I also think we should be given a breakdown of how we did, even if we pass. I know I am weak in statistics, but for some reason passed the CQE anyway (I am stronger in qualitative than quantitative subjects). I would like to know just what areas to study harder on if I took the test again, since I would unlikely collect enough points for recert.

2b. ASQ should work harder to reach the small business community, who thinks quality is a product or service aspect measure--a hot hamburger, clean store, taxi on time, etc. This is especially important to nonmanufacturers, as I described in my SBIR report. ASQ's overall focus is still on high end product/service design and well-developed systems, even though the vast majority of firms are very small, and think of different challeges, such as employee turnover and Workmen Comp costs. ASQ does a great job in preaching to the choir, but a frankly lousy job in outreach to the very early stages of business performance enhancement. ASQ needs to start at the beginning, and jettison the term "quality" because it's so widely misunderstood.

ASQ will likely lose me because of this. My CQE cert expires in 2006, and CQA in 2005. I last held a job using these certs in 2001. They are mysterious to the market I am trying to penetrate as a small business performance advisor. Manufacturing shrinkage has made these certs practically obsolete, unless we can do a better job of marketing to the businesses still here. I'm working on educating this market and prying open a niche, but I could use help from the organization that is supposed to really understand the need for what we do.

 

[Wes Bucey]

Oddly, when a supplier to one of the big automotive OEMs attempts to raise his price, he encounters great resistance because the OEMs always try to ensure there is a competitor lurking who can take the business at a lower price.

As ASQ sets itself up as a sole source monopoly, it doesn't bother to justify ANY of its price raises. There is a point at which the marketplace finds or creates an alternate (or modifies its operations to do without) to offset the power of the monopoly.

Essentially, this happened with 6S certifications and ASQ jumped into 6S to get a piece of the pie. (Note that in many cases, ASQ has been undercutting the prices other providers charged for 6S certification.)

My guess is that many folks who may have to pay their own fees for ASQ certification will think long and hard to determine if there is a real cost benefit to holding the certificate before spending those dollars.

I note many organizations are no longer paying ASQ dues for their employees and even more are refusing to pay for certification exams.

If Jennifer's information is valid in other parts of the country as well - then many small organizations have no knowledge about ASQ certifications and therefore see no dollar value of such certification or the holder of one to their organization.

Caveat - please note: the Body of Knowledge represented by the ASQ certifications is still good and valid. Soon, some smart entrepreneur (maybe even one of you reading this screed) will say, "Hey! Study that Body of Knowledge, but come to me and take the test for half price. I'll give you a certificate." If that somebody has a good organization (some internet college, perhaps?) with a fair reputation, a lot of the current test takers who just want some sort of certificate to show they know the Body of Knowledge may abandon ASQ and flock to the new guy on the block.

It could happen. As a long-time ASQ member, I know there is every chance there are practitioners without certificates who are much more skilled and adept than those who do have certificate. (It only stands to reason that if there are non-college graduates who are more skilled and adept in academic fields than some (not all) college graduates, there must be a similar situation regarding ASQ certificates.)

So, the question really is, "Is ASQ pricing its product (certification) so high it will invite competitors back into the business of selling certificates at a lower price?"

 

[Jen Kirley]

I think Wes nailed it in the context that is often overlooked, which of course is body of knowlege. Once one has this, in a business climate that no longer recognizes a certification (I've seen an awful lot of deer-in-the-headlight looks) or thinks it doesn't apply to them, recert efforts and expense may become a questionable value.

2nd, this is a competetive labor environment, and the individual is being asked more often to assume personal risk for professional development. Workers will continue to accept this risk while the job market favors the employer, but I am reading they are feeling attracted to organizations who invest in their employees' readiness. These employers are said to enjoy higher productivity, can reduce costly defects more easily, and have lower employee turnover. When the labor market pendulum reverses and competition for labor preoccupies management as well as a push for lower costs, these investors in workforces will likely have the last laugh (see Business Week's October 25 article about George David of United Technologies Corp.--"The Unsung CEO").

As the public's understanding of Quality moves away from Fitness For Use and into an identity more like Business Performance, there may be increased certification coverage. There are schools that offer degrees in quality management; we need to see more of the awareness creep into MBA programs, too. It's beginning, where courses in ethics are now being demanded and I even read about a Harvard Business School seminar on Breakthrough Customer Satisfaction--happy gasp!

This may take some time, since I noted a distinct dropoff in awareness levels among rural small business owners during my SBIR project. Where awareness is low, demand for the BOK is lower, and certfications mean squat. IMO, ASQ would benefit from recognizing this and making an outreach effort that mines demand from the nonmanufacturing small business sectors, the largest in the U.S. but an almost utterly neglected market.

 

[Groo3]

2. If ASQ has no other option but to increase, what additional value added service you think could be provided by ASQ?
I think, ASQ could send the Strength, Weakness report to all exam takers. Currently ASQ sends to those who are not successful in the exam.
There could be many exam takers who have passed on the margin of Error. There could be many who scored extremely well in one area and poor in the other area, yet passed the exam. Hence, all of us need a feedback to improve on our understanding of BOK irrespective of Exam outcome. ASQ could offer this value added service for all exam takers.

Your thoughts on my question 1 and 2 ?

Regards,
Govind.

Well, my thoughts on # 2 anyway=
I do not think highly of the feedback the last time I failed an exam (I had a 510 where a 520+ was passing). The feedback was basically targeted at the BOK sections and did not tell me what specifically was incorrect (kind of like saying you want to deliver a package to a friend across the country but only want to give the shipper the name of the city and state they live in, nothing else, no name, no address)... I think it would be more appropriate for ASQ to identify specific questions that were answered incorrectly (all of them) along with the correct answer. Then (at least) I would be able to learn what I answered wrong, learn why my answer was wrong, and ultimately not get it wrong the next time. This would be helpful even if you passed an exam... it would be a measure of how well you really did.

just my

Also, if they were more forthcoming with the strength / weakness details, more people might be willing to re-take an exam after their certificate expires instead of going all-out to get the credits they need so they can avoid a re-certification exam (I know many who opt for the CEU's instead of re-taking the exam. I have heard most of my friends with ASQ Cert's say they are afraid to re-take it because they don't know how well they actually did last time)...

E

 

[Wes Bucey]

As I see it, two goals and philosophies are in conflict when we consider the question of identifying the exact questions which were wrong and what the correct answer should have been.

1. The test creator doesn't want to endanger the integrity of future test sessions by identifying questions which may be difficult, because future test takers may learn of them and skew the results on subsequent tests.
   
2. The test taker wants a benchmark to determine whether he misinterpreted information in the Body of Knowledge or whether he just didn't study it or even whether he just made a foolish error in marking the answer.

The conflict between the two views arises because of the nature of administering an international test. The Scholastic Aptitude Test tries to resolve this conflict by giving the test takers a numeric score versus a pass/fail report. In addition to a numeric score, Educational Testing Service also reports a percentile rank to show where the raw score places in relation to other test takers. A numeric grade would help folks make a determination whether to study and retake the test rather than work to get ceu (continuing education credits) to avoid retaking the test. Obviously, it would be more helpful to the test taker to have more details, but I doubt folks would be happy at the extra cost involved to create completely new exams for every session.

Other ideas on resolving the conflict between test maker and test taker?

 

[Govind]

Yes, according to ASQ web page, the member rates for various certifications are going up by another USD 30 and Non member rates up to USD 75 !
https://www.asq.org/portal/page?_pageid=33,32429,33_32570&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

1. Do you think this cost will affect exam takers?
Iam not sure whether this difference will affect North American exam takers. However, I think this will affect the growth of International exam takers from developing countries.

2. If ASQ has no other option but to increase, what additional value added service you think could be provided by ASQ?
I think, ASQ could send the Strength, Weakness report to all exam takers. Currently ASQ sends to those who are not successful in the exam.
There could be many exam takers who have passed on the margin of Error. There could be many who scored extremely well in one area and poor in the other area, yet passed the exam. Hence, all of us need a feedback to improve on our understanding of BOK irrespective of Exam outcome. ASQ could offer this value added service for all exam takers.

Your thoughts on my question 1 and 2 ?

Regards,
Govind.

I forwarded this thread link yesterday with subsequent discussions to Ms.Sally Harthun of ASQ, Certification Offerings for her feedback.
Ms.Harthun replied within a day and kindly agreed to share this feedback with Elsmar.
Regards,
Govind.

Reply from Ms.Harthun:

"Hi Govind - Thanks for sending this to us. I've asked our Psychometrician, Sheila Connolly to comment on some of the aspects of the threads. Here is her response:

Each time the Certification Board is asked to make a decision on the basis of cut-score study data, we review the types of error that can be made: 1) passing someone who should fail; and 2) Failing someone who should pass. In every instance, the Cert Board has made the decision that it is better to fail someone who should have passed. Therefore, the kind of "margin" mentioned in the thread below is exactly the opposite of what is true. Candidates do not pass on the margin of error; in fact, they fail on the margin of error.

With regard to providing "strengths & weaknesses" reports to passers, we have considered a number of different ideas in this area, but the Standards for Psychological and Educational Testing which we use as our basis for the ASQ examination programs has many cautions about reporting such information, as it can contribute to test misuse. One example of test misuse would be when 2 employees from a company take the CQx test. One of them passes with a score of 88 and the other passes with a score of 90. The "misuse" comes in when someone uses the information from that test result and decides that the candidate who scored 90 is more qualified - is a "better" CQx" - than the employee who scored 88. The fact that both of them passed the exam is all the employer needs to know. Both of them have been successful in the CQx body of knowledge, and both are certified accordingly.

Another aspect of this example is that no one knows whether the person who scored 88 got five very difficult questions right, while the person who scored 90 didn't get any of those hard questions right but did score well on a series of "easy" questions, and scored well enough on those relatively easy questions to get 2 more right than the person who scored 88.


As far as the price increase:
When reviewing the Certification fees, a decision was made to increase them for a number of reasons. Among them, the fact that the fees have not kept pace with the increased cost of administering the exams, the certification fees have not increased for over three years, and when benchmarking other associations, ASQ's certificate fees are still among the lowest. As the prices aren't increasing until January 1st, we are trying to give examinees the opportunity and as much time as possible to apply now before the increase for members ($30) becomes effective. The increase between member and the nonmember fee is to encourage people to join as members.

I am sure you will agree that the ASQ Certifications are still a great value for the relatively modest fee charged.

I hope this information helps put to rest at least some of the myths people have about Cert. Please let me know if you have any other questions!

Thanks again for your help.

Sally"

 

[Wes Bucey]

I don't really buy the part about increased costs. I wonder if they would publish those costs? Is there "fat" in the cost? Most of the tests I'm aware of are administered by volunteers. I note the GMAT is now administered via computer rather than pen and pencil plus paper. Is there a possibility the same places which administer GMAT could do ASQ tests for a reduced fee? (they are just "service centers" after all)

I wonder if just their psychometrician holds that view or if it is a prevailing view among most in that profession.

psychometrics:
The branch of psychology that deals with the design, administration, and interpretation of quantitative tests for the measurement of psychological variables such as intelligence, aptitude, and personality traits. Also called psychometry.

Question:
Is an ASQ certification test a test of aptitude? or a test of comprehension? In my view it is more of a comprehension test than anything else. Any views on this?

Whose tests were they using as benchmarks? It seems to me when we talk about benchmarks, it becomes a question of "what the market will bear" rather than "true cost." What do some others think?

 

[Craig H.]

I
Question:
Is an ASQ certification test a test of aptitude? or a test of comprehension? In my view it is more of a comprehension test than anything else. Any views on this?

Wes:

Because of the breadth of the BoK, especially for the CQE and CQMgr, I think that the test has to be one of comprehension. Once that comprehension is achieved, the true value of that knowledge is the application of the tools and ideas contained within the BoK. In the cases of Q pros, that application is often equivalent to aptitude, agreed?

So, it would be difficult, IMO, to test aptitude in any meaningful way, unless we limited the scope of the test (automotive only for one?). Maybe the closest to aptitude testing on the CQx's are the essay questions on the CQMgr, which I thought had some nice, big, holes for unsuspecting test takers to fall into. When I detected some tricks (which I will admit may have been paranoia), my approach suddenly became one of "simple is best". Hardly a good mindset to have while my aptitude is measured.

As far as the cost issue goes, I do think that the market plays a role. I sure would like to see some effort expended on ASQ's part to promote the certifications outside of the quality cloister, including small business, as our colleague Ms. Kirley has discussed. Demand for CQx's would then increase the value of the certification, negating resistance to the cost.

A comparison of the expected pay differential of a CQx/non CQx versus the benchmark differentials of other certification schemes would be useful. Then, using that ratio, a comparison of the cost of the exams could be made. Hmmm, maybe that would be an interesting article for the Cove?