Assignment of responsibilities outside of procedures

[Basserx]

This has probably already been addressed, but I can't find it.

We are a small company and my boss, who founded it, owns most of it, and runs it as CEO/President, has an annoying habit that makes documenting who is responsible for what a challenge. Occasionally he has reorganization spasms that cause a whirlwind consisting of responsibilities and authorities ripped from their former owners. Eventually, the wind dies down and the responsibilities and authorities come to rest on new owners. This can be very sudden.

I want to write our procedures so that they don't contain any specific references to who is responsible for what, especially with respect to quality records. Instead, I want to include something like, "see Process Responsibilities.xls" in every procedure. "Process Responsibilites.xls" would be a file listing responsibilities, who they are assigned to and when. I could just update that file whenever it gets gusty.

But does that comply with 9K2K?

Thanks in advance.

 

[michelle8075]

Hi and welcome to the cove!
I am going to be gutsy and put my opinion out there first. I would say that if you call this out in your procedure, a list of these owners and you can show that that "outside" documentation is updated and revision levels and dates are on it, I as an auditor would have no problem with it. I would also say it wouldn't be a bad idea to put a control number on that document, but I am also torn that you will be updating it...... a lot. So I am curious to hear what others think.

As long as you have traceability you are fine in my opinion. 9K2K is written so that YOUR company decides how to do things. There is no requirement in 9K2K that I am aware of that you MUST list the responsibility in the procedure.

Hope this helps!

This has probably already been addressed, but I can't find it.

We are a small company and my boss, who founded it, owns most of it, and runs it as CEO/President, has an annoying habit that makes documenting who is responsible for what a challenge. Occasionally he has reorganization spasms that cause a whirlwind consisting of responsibilities and authorities ripped from their former owners. Eventually, the wind dies down and the responsibilities and authorities come to rest on new owners. This can be very sudden.

I want to write our procedures so that they don't contain any specific references to who is responsible for what, especially with respect to quality records. Instead, I want to include something like, "see Process Responsibilities.xls" in every procedure. "Process Responsibilites.xls" would be a file listing responsibilities, who they are assigned to and when. I could just update that file whenever it gets gusty.

But does that comply with 9K2K?

Thanks in advance.

 

[howste]

The short answer is yes, it complies with ISO 9001:2000. The only places that responsibilities are mentioned in reference to documented procedures are in clauses 8.2.2 and 8.3, which state:

(8.2.2) The responsibilities and requirements for planning and conducting audits, and for reporting results and maintaining records shall be defined in a documented procedure.

(8.3) The controls and related responsibilities and authorities for dealing with nonconforming product shall be defined in a documented procedure.

In these cases, the R&A are required to be in a "documented procedure." If you look at the way ISO defines the word "procedure," it doesn't have to be in one document. The spreadsheet can have the R&A defined, then the procedure documents can refer to it.

 

[Caster]

Org chart version 40+

This has probably already been addressed, but I can't find it.

We are a small company and my boss....has an annoying habit that makes documenting who is responsible for what a challenge. Occasionally he has reorganization spasms that cause a whirlwind consisting of responsibilities and authorities ripped from their former owners. Eventually, the wind dies down and the responsibilities and authorities come to rest on new owners. This can be very sudden.

...include something like, "see Process Responsibilities.xls" in every procedure. "Process Responsibilites.xls" would be a file listing responsibilities, who they are assigned to and when. I could just update that file whenever it gets gusty.
QUOTE]

Sounds familiar...our procedures call out the org chart...and it is on revision 43 (and another change is underway) in less than 3 years....

What did Deming say....management should provide constancy of purpose?....oh wait...we're onto six sigma now...no need to worry about the old guy anymore...

Just for fun, if you plot profit$ and scrap$ on a control chart you should be able to see a sudden and sustained change in the process average just after each major re-org...right?...har de har...

I think you've got a good idea to simplify your life...go for it!

 

[vanputten]

Hello Basserx:

I think your idea to have a single document defining responsibilities is very interesting and I applaud you for thinking outside of the box. I think it is conforming to ISO 9001:2000.

By the way, there are other places where responsibilites are mentioned. However, these requirements do not require you to document the responsibility. 8.2.2 and 8.3 require you to document responsibilities.

5.5.1 Responsibility and authority
Top management shall ensure that responsibilities and authorities are defined and communicated within the organization.

5.5.2 Management representative
Top management shall appoint a member of management who, irrespective of other responsibilities, shall have responsibility and authority that includes......

7.3.1 The organization shall manage the interfaces between different groups involved in design and development to ensure effective communication and clear assignment of responsibility.

Regards, Dirk

 

[Jen Kirley]

This has probably already been addressed, but I can't find it.

We are a small company and my boss, who founded it, owns most of it, and runs it as CEO/President, has an annoying habit that makes documenting who is responsible for what a challenge. Occasionally he has reorganization spasms that cause a whirlwind consisting of responsibilities and authorities ripped from their former owners. Eventually, the wind dies down and the responsibilities and authorities come to rest on new owners. This can be very sudden.

I want to write our procedures so that they don't contain any specific references to who is responsible for what, especially with respect to quality records. Instead, I want to include something like, "see Process Responsibilities.xls" in every procedure. "Process Responsibilites.xls" would be a file listing responsibilities, who they are assigned to and when. I could just update that file whenever it gets gusty.

But does that comply with 9K2K?

Thanks in advance.

Welcome to the Cove!

This should be fine--but I would avoid doing organizational charts whenever possible. I would instead assign authority and responsibilities to titles, teams or departments versus names that must be changed.

 

[qualitymanager]

Basserx - good idea.

Going beyond the requriements of ISO 9001:2000, I hope that when u show your boss 20 revisions in 6 months, it will help him to decide to spend his time on things which are more value-added than reassigning responsibilities.