Attribute Measurement Systems Study---Risk Analysis Methods & Analytic Method

Y

Yasunari Kuo

#1
Hi Folks,

I have searched this site for the related threads. There is only few threads posted in 2003 about Hypothesis Test Analysis--Cross-tab Method.

My question is : do we have to do BOTH or just Hypothesis Test Analysis in order to avoid any NCs on 3rd MSA?

What I am thinking about is to do just hypothesis test analysis instead of the short study in 2rd MSA. Am I right?

Any experienced one please make some exlpanation about how the counts and expected counts of the crosstabulations on page 130 relate to .88/.92/.77 on page 131. I just can not understand how these results come from, although I know there is a formula there. Please use the counts for the demonstration.

All comments and suggestions shall be most appreciated.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
R

Ramon Montoya

#2
Analytical Method

you will only need to perform the analytical method, the short method no longer exist in the MSA 3rd edition.

And only do it for the gages mentioned in the control plan and by families of equipment.

I asked this question to an advisor we hired for TS16949 implementation and he told me that was OK, He was also part of the team that developed the APQP Manual for AAIG.
 

antoine.dias

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Kappa calculation

The .88/.92/.77 is the kappa result from the crosstables on page 130.

The formula can be found on page 129.

If the formula itself is a problem, please let us know.

Best regards,

Antoine
 

antoine.dias

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Kappa calculation

In the example page 131 the following has been calculated :

Po = the sum of the observed proportions on which they agree.
With the data from page 130 this gives us :
(45 +97)/150 = 0.95

Pe = the sum of the expected proportions on which they agree.
With the data from page 130 this gives us :
(16.0+68.0)/150.0 = 0.56

Kappa = (0.95-0.56)/(1-0.56) = 0.88 ( Kappa between operator A and the REF value )

Hope this is clear now.

Best regards,
Antoine
 
A

Atul Khandekar

#5
Yasunari Kuo said:
What I am thinking about is to do just hypothesis test analysis instead of the short study in 2rd MSA. Am I right?
Ramon is correct. The short method of 2nd edition is no more acceptable.
(Welcome to the Cove, Ramon :bigwave: ).
See http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6027.

Yasunari Kuo said:
Any experienced one please make some exlpanation about how the counts and expected counts of the crosstabulations on page 130 relate to .88/.92/.77 on page 131. I just can not understand how these results come from, although I know there is a formula there. Please use the counts for the demonstration.
Antoine has already explained kappa calculation. Also see:
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=9257
http://elsmar.com/pdf_files/Attr_R&R DOC.pdf
 
R

Ramon Montoya

#6
analytical Method

Does any one know what is the criteria to judge when the repeatability is low or high in the analytical method?

The criteria described in the manual to accept or reject the study only talks about the "t" value should not exceed 2.093, but there is nothing regarding repeatability.

I will really appreciate this, tried internet, msa and minitab, but there is nothing regarding this. Minitab says that repeatability should be low, but based on what? don't know.

HELP!!!! :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
J Attribute Gage Studies - What gages are required to have Measurement Systems Analysis IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
W Attribute MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) for Low Volumes Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
J Attribute Gage R&R MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) on Pin Gages Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
F MSA - Measurement System Analysis Attribute Data Crosstab sheet APQP and PPAP 1
C Attribute Measurement System Analysis (MSA) Template Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 0
S Sample Size for Attribute MSA (Measurement System Analysis) in 4th Edition Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
S Choosing Parts for Attribute MSA (Measurement System Analysis) in 4th Edition, pg 132 Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
automoto Attribute MSA (Measurement System Analysis) - .xls Form attached Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 27
V MSA (Measurement System Analysis) Doubt on Analytic Method (Attribute Study) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
J Attribute Measurement System Analysis Excel spreadsheet Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 11
R Destructive Attribute MSA (Measurement System Analysis) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 9
B Attribute Measurement System Study on Aesthetic Characteristics Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
P Attribute or Variable Measurement? Outer Diameter of a Tube Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
C Attribute Measurement System Questions Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
M Cpk for attribute data? Performing SPC on capacitors - Capacitance measurement Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 9
A Measurement System Analysis - Attribute GRR - How kappa is calculated Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
S MSA for attribute relation gage Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
I Overwhelmed with attribute MSA requirement for visual inspection IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
H Need MSA 4th ed. compliant attribute MSA template General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
A Attribute Analysis for colour matching scale Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
K Transform variable data into attribute data Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 24
K IATF & Attribute Study requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
T Correct MSA study for an automated camera system which makes attribute inspection Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
O Examples of Critical process parameter (CPP) and Critical quality attribute (CQA) Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
C Applying Weibayes to Attribute sampling Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 0
M Template for Attribute Gage R & R wanted Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
B Easy Software Needed for Recording Mainly Attribute Data Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 2
A Does an attribute study (Go/NoGo pin gage) need two studies (1 for each pin) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
B Attribute Gage R&R study according to "Charbonneau" Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
R Can a Attribute Study be considered a Visual Inspection? Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 6
J MSA on Part Specific Attribute Fixtures Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
B IATF 16949 Cl. 8.6.6 - Acceptance Criteria - Zero Defects Attribute Data Sampling IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
L Gage Blocks: Attribute or Variable Gage? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
T Attribute vs Variable Inspection Data ISO 13485 Requirement ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
D Calibration of a Width Gage Slot with an Attribute Gage - Maximum Width Condition General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 16
R Visual Attribute Inspector Capability and KAPPA Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
D attribute gage RR in a unique way Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
M Proper Gauging - GD&T - Attribute gage to check true positioning on the shop floor Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
P RQL/AQL from Attribute Data Six Sigma 1
M Population failure rate based on attribute data Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 4
V Minitab - Attribute Gage Study Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
S Attribute G&R for all Visual Controls in Control Plan Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
J Attribute Test Method Validation 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 1
A Attribute Sampling Plans with Switching Rules - Software Recommendations Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 1
B Bayes Success-Run on Attribute Data - Determining Sample Size Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 2
A Attribute Inspection P Chart Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 9
Chennaiite Do Attribute Control Charts really help? Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 9
S Visual Inspection Galvanized Attribute Study Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 2
N Example of how to perform a Visual Attribute Gage R&R Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
K MINITAB 16 - Attribute gage study (Analytic method) and Gage R&R Study (Expanded) Using Minitab Software 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom