Audit 1 week away and no agenda from auditor yet

#1
We have an audit (surveillance) coming up and don't have an agenda from auditor yet. Obviously this impacts our ability to prepare. Is there any requirement regarding timing of when auditor owes us an agenda?
 
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Golfman25

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#2
Have you supplied all the required audit prep info? If so, I would just follow up a) to make sure it was received and b) to ask for the agenda.
 
#3
Have you supplied all the required audit prep info? If so, I would just follow up a) to make sure it was received and b) to ask for the agenda.
We did provide weeks ago and have followed up but got message that we would get it when we get it. I just wasn't sure if there was a requirement for the auditors.
 

Sidney Vianna

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#4
but got message that we would get it when we get it.
Let me guess: you are communicating with the auditor only? Have you contacted the CB automotive manager? Of course they are supposed to provide you with an audit agenda in a timely manner. Find where in the CB website they blow words into the wind to the effect they are committed to customer satisfaction and make them accountable to that.

Good luck.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#5
Let me guess: you are communicating with the auditor only? Have you contacted the CB automotive manager? Of course they are supposed to provide you with an audit agenda in a timely manner. Find where in the CB website they blow words into the wind to the effect they are committed to customer satisfaction and make them accountable to that.

Good luck.
My experience is this is provided by the auditor. But certainly the CB rep can provide a push.
 

Sidney Vianna

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#6
Unless registrants tell on incompetent/unprofessional auditors to the CB's who hire them, this post from over 11 years ago will always be current....

MAN! I hope so!

I have been lurking here forever...and finally have mustered the courage to state my concerns and observations. :notme:

I have been dealing with an incompetent CB auditor for over 5 years. Our goal get a certificate...his goal land a full time job at one of the several companies he has been auditing for us while living high on the hog with us "entertaining" him.

He manages to cycle the audits to support his golfing trips, hobbies and enjoys men's clubs.

This had been brought to management's attention and we knew, if his whims are met...we keep the certificate. :mg:

It gets more intersting... over the years it has always been the same stale and staggant "paper audit". Opening folders, shuffling paper, checking forms and NEVER performed a process audit.

Within the last year he wasn't sharp enough to see a REAL change that was taking place...the company designated a "group" to break out of status quo approach to quality (bribe an auditor for a certificate process) and put into place a "BPM group".

We had even shared with him some process mapping...he was like a dog watching a ceiling fan...something was going around him but it was all over his head. ;)

With the BPM group...things suddenly started changing!

With Business Process Modeling...for the first time we were able to "show" in a diagram what we did! How things interfaced...acknowledged crippling silos...we could logically speak to issues that were hidden or not well known that were defective or in some cases absolutely un-needed.

After the modeling we could now analyze what and how we did things...we were able to identify areas for improvement. Imagine that! :mg:

Metrics were identified measurements have begun.

NOW suddenly our "auditor" is seeing the light. The gig is up! He has been found out. He brought nothing to us other than layers of frustration because we were still caught in the game of quick fixes to keep an auditor happy trap.

Want a big laugh! We are currently shopping for a new auditor because the former auditor finally landed a job here in one of the small companies he used to audit and get this...he didn't land a job in Quality but instead...SALES! :lmao:

I am proud of my company for realizing that the offer and plan for BPM was the way out of the vicious cycle of "chasing a certificate" and has instead given us a path to seek real improvement without any undue interference from an incompetent auditor.

This may very well be my only post here...since I prefer to lurk...but before I sign off...I can assure many... if not all of YOU...I am sincere in giving thanks for the open discussions I have lurked through and all the different threads.

Thank you Marc for this forum, :applause: I suspect there are others like me who rely on the expert support and discussions, it gives people like me the courage to keep Quality alive and well.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#7
We're required to provide an audit plan/agenda for the next audit as part of the audit report, also every audit report has within it the 3 year agenda for the present certification cycle.

As an aside note, if you have to prepare for a scheduled audit you're wrong, if your system is effectively maintained, as required by the applicable standard, you should be able to be audited at any time and without regard to who is or is not present.
 

Sidney Vianna

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#8
We're required to provide an audit plan/agenda for the next audit as part of the audit report, also every audit report has within it the 3 year agenda for the present certification cycle.
As it can be seen by the IATF Rules below, there is an expectation that the IATF 16949 audits are planned taking into account some contemporaneous data which will not be available for review, 6 or 12 months before the audit. That's a good thing. The assembly line approach to audits is not very effective and proper audit planning requires current data on system performance.
Rules 5th.JPG

As an aside note, if you have to prepare for a scheduled audit you're wrong, if your system is effectively maintained, as required by the applicable standard, you should be able to be audited at any time and without regard to who is or is not present.
While I don't dispute the point, it is always advisable to have process owners on-site to allow for a beneficial assessment. Knowing the processes to be part of the scope of the surveillance audit would assist in identifying who is likely to be called upon, during the audit.
 
#9
As an aside note, if you have to prepare for a scheduled audit you're wrong,
Well, there's being prepared and being prepared. As a minimum, a CB auditor should understand that they are there at the organization's request. If anyone is going to turn up at someone's facility, the very minimum they should do is have an agenda, isn't it? As a consultant, I set some expectations for a visit. An agenda is helpful, not to prepare - in the way you are implying - but to put a marker in someone's schedule for 30-45 minutes or whatever. What is wrong with that? If I'm running my process and someone wants to come and talk to me, let me know so I can hold my schedule open.

What is wrong with these auditors? Do they have a clue what "professional" means? If I didn't get an agenda, I'd turn them away saying we weren't ready...
 
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