Audit day - Production Planning - Must we be producing product?

C

Cordon - 2007

#11
I’ve seen this many times in the cove, “if you not sure ask”. Call the registrar and explain the situation, if you need to be running automotive parts re-schedule, if not don’t. Maybe I’m just over simplifying! :)
 
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bpritts

Involved - Posts
#12
Here's a slightly off-topic angle based on this question. JSW05 makes an interesting point with regard to what "automotive product" means, and what "quality system" means.

If you have both auto and non-auto products, what elements of the system are common? Do you develop D-FMEA's and P-FMEA's? Do you develop production control plans? What about preparing (not necessarily submitting) a PPAP to the full PPAP requirements?

If these aren't done for the non-automotive products, then there's no doubt in my mind that the registrar needs to audit an "automotive" product, because these APQP items are a major element of the quality planning process.

I haven't seen a lot of companies with mixed automotive and non-automotive products. I have seen several automotive companies that make aftermarket and OEM parts. Some of these companies treat both the same; they just keep the APQP info for their own records, as the aftermarket customers don't require it (or know what to do with it!). Others skip the whole process and run the aftermarket parts on the cheap, with minimal quality planning.

The interesting thing about these two types of companies: The APQP done by the first group is usually better done. They have grasped the benefits of the APQP process and find it valuable. (Otherwise, they wouldn't do it when there was no customer demanding it.) The second group did the APQP as a paperwork, chickens*** exercise, so even when they did it for an automotive customer, it wasn't that useful.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

Brad
 

Manoj Mathur

Quite Involved in Discussions
#13
I shall try to reply with our own case. As discussed in one earlier Thread, We are producing Aluminum Foil in our Hindalco Plant. This foil is going for both the purpose Non Auto customers (Majority; >90%) and for making raditors (around 5 -7%) which we are supplying to many Tier-1 suppliers.
We have asked our TS2 auditors regarding audit of manufacuring foil which is supposed to be used in raditors. Incidentlly, on those 2 days (including night shift) we did not have any schedule of major process (i.e. Aluminum Rolling Process) but only Heat Treatment process and that too combining this process with Non Auto Foil (Packaging Foil). But auditors saw the Heat treatment process, audited the precaution while doing HT and audited all the common processes such as HR process, Purchase process. Besides this they have seen the records of Product Audit, Lay out Inspection, Process Audit, Customer Complaint Handling Process and all the records related to TS2 requirements such as PFMEA, MSA , APQP, PPAP etc.
It is expected from us (or for any mature organisation) that we are complying the standard and not just doing two three activities (in front of auditors) for sake of Certification.
An experience auditor will understand the situation and may conduct the audit even though that perticular product is not under manufacturing at that perticular time. But here I shall emphasize that your system should exhibit enough maturity to say so.

 
V

vanputten

#14
Hello All:

Product Realization is one of the many processes that makes up the management system. If we accept that the organization must be realizing automotive product on the day of the external audit, then must someone be desiging an automotive part on that day too? What about pruchasing automotive raw material while the auditor watches? Doing a PPAP right then and there? Calibration? Resource planning? Internal auditing?

There are many, many processes where the auditor reviews the available objective data, for proof of process conformance to requirements, from processes that are not running on the day of the audit.

Why would product realization be different?

Regards, Dirk
 
D

DI Foundry - 2010

#15
I vote to not change the schedule

andre-soares said:
We work for both non-automotive and automotive industry (ISO TS ans ISO 9000 certifications), we will have an audit in the end of this month, I have the information from our planning department that is not predicted to produce automotive parts in the audit day, do we have to change our planning?

Thnak you in advance
:agree1:
We have the same situation at our company, The Auditors during the Pre-Audit phase will review your "TS 16949 Subscribing Customer Requirements" and ask for conforming evidence. The evidence S/B recorded.
 
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