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Audit Man Day Requirements - Small AS9100 Company hiring New Employees

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pbro757

#1
I work in the QA dept of a small (10 people) aerospace tool company and for the last few years our Surveillance audits have been 1-2.5 days depending on recert, etc. However, we have been talking about adding a new member to our team which would take our total employees up to 11. My question: is there any way to avoid adding an entire day to the audit process which would be completely unnecessary based on the nature of the new employee's work. Is this threshold set by the CB or is it set by another governing body? thanks for any help you guys can offer.
 
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dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
Re: AS9100 company hiring new employees

There are 2 places that you could determine how many employees / man days that the registrar would use. (and we keep it simple) but per AS9104 - registrar have latitude based on complex scenarios that they use for calculation of man days.

The other format is the program in this website - http://auditcalc.wichita.edu/auditcalc/

you could also find in OASIS and thru the IAQG website.

Looking real quick at the standard (page 23 - table) - you could have 15 employees for 1.0 man days (7.3 Exclusion).
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: AS9100 company hiring new employees

but per AS9104 - registrar have latitude based on complex scenarios that they use for calculation of man days.
The only "latitude" AS9104-1 gives is for CB's to INCREASE audit-days from the minimum established in Table 2 of AS9104-1. There is absolutely no possibility of audit days reduction from the table.

In the OP's case, it is almost a guarantee that the certification structure would be a single site.

According to the table 2 of AS9104-1, the minimum audit-days for annual surveillance audits would increase by 1/2 day if the organization is design responsible, if an 11[sup]th[/sup] employee is added to the head count.
 
P

pbro757

#4
Re: AS9100 company hiring new employees

Thanks for the info. You are correct that we are a single site. And we are design responsible. The employee we wish to add will not have an impact on the quality management system, since he will work in the IT dept. Would that make a difference? Would it be worth contacting the CB to ask the question? Any type of waiver that could be applied? I think the system of determining the # of man-days based solely on the # of employees is inadequate. Adding one more person, or even two more, would not make our processes any more complex. Would the auditor need to audit our IT dept? Sorry for so many questions...:)
 
P

pbro757

#6
Re: AS9100 company hiring new employees

Good point, I think i should clarify that he is a web developer that we want to contract to manage the website...he is not responsible for the network. But that being said, does adding one person warrant paying an auditor to be here an extra day or 1/2 day. Nothing in the QMS will change if we hire them, except the organizational chart.
 
S

silentrunning

#7
Re: AS9100 company hiring new employees

Good point, I think i should clarify that he is a web developer that we want to contract to manage the website...he is not responsible for the network. But that being said, does adding one person warrant paying an auditor to be here an extra day or 1/2 day. Nothing in the QMS will change if we hire them, except the organizational chart.
Only you can answer that. Will the cost be offset by a noticable increase in new business? Will not hiring him/her cause a problem that will let your competition get ahead of you? You are the one who has to figure that out.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
I work in the QA dept of a small (10 people) aerospace tool company and for the last few years our Surveillance audits have been 1-2.5 days depending on recert, etc. However, we have been talking about adding a new member to our team which would take our total employees up to 11. My question: is there any way to avoid adding an entire day to the audit process which would be completely unnecessary based on the nature of the new employee's work. Is this threshold set by the CB or is it set by another governing body? thanks for any help you guys can offer.
bpro,

In answering this question for yourself you may want to remember one of the golden rules of investing:

"Never invest to avoid tax". They should not be connected.

Likewise, you have chosen to invest in an IT professional to be responsible for your website that doubtless will be making more competitive promises to your existing and future customers.

You are going to have to pay the taxes incl the costs of accredited certification.

John
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#9
I work in the QA dept of a small (10 people) aerospace tool company and for the last few years our Surveillance audits have been 1-2.5 days depending on recert, etc. However, we have been talking about adding a new member to our team which would take our total employees up to 11. My question: is there any way to avoid adding an entire day to the audit process which would be completely unnecessary based on the nature of the new employee's work. Is this threshold set by the CB or is it set by another governing body? thanks for any help you guys can offer.
Unfortunately, the audit day requirements seems pretty arbitrary too me, especially when dealing with small companies. Good luck.
 
G

gbcqc

#10
Re: AS9100 company hiring new employees

Good point, I think i should clarify that he is a web developer that we want to contract to manage the website...he is not responsible for the network. But that being said, does adding one person warrant paying an auditor to be here an extra day or 1/2 day. Nothing in the QMS will change if we hire them, except the organizational chart.
What if he becomes a supplier and supplies you a service (web developer and up keep). I don't think you would need to add him/her as an employee, just as a supplier.
 
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