Audit of Management Representative Functions (ISO 9001 & OHSAS 18001)

eternal_atlas

Involved In Discussions
#1
Information :My Company got certifications under ISO 9001 & OHSAS 18001 standards. The safety department and quality department are functioning seperately as per the organisation structure. The management representatives for QMS and OHSAS systems are different.

Here the questions are:
Do we have to audit the MR functions against the OHSAS standard as well as ISO 9001 standard?
Do we have to include the internal audit of safety department in the internal audit plan of QMS and OHSAS Audit plan seperately?
Is it enough if we do the internal audit only against the OHSAS 18001 which can fulfil the requirements of ISO 9001 standard requirements also.

Note: We aware that OHSAS 18001: 2007 standard has been developed in line with ISO 9001:2008 standard. Also, the 6 mandatory clauses are covered in both the standards.

Expecting your valuable input

Suresh Kumar
 
Last edited:
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Re: Audit of MR Functions (ISO 9001 & OHSAS 18001)

In my company, safety and quality departments were functioning seperately and got certifications under ISO 9001 & OHSAS 18001 with seperate Management Representatives of respective departments.

Here the question is:

Do we have to audit the MR functions against the OHSAS standard as well as ISO 9001 standard?
Do we have to include the intenral audit of safety department in the internal audit plan of QMS and OHSAS Audit plan?
Is it enough if we do the internal audit only against the OHSAS 18001 which can fulfil the requirements of ISO 9001 standard requirements also.

Note: We aware that OHSAS 18001: 2007 standard has been developed in line with ISO 9001:2008 standard. Also, the 6 mandatory clauses are covered in both the standards.

Expecting your valuable input

Suresh Kumar
Hi Suresh,
nice to meet.
First of all , I think that table 1 Annex A in OHSAS 18001 is very useful for correspondence between ISO 9001 and OHSAS standard.
There is no requirement vs the first question you did. I do not know if you have integrated systems management. In this case you can plan integrated internal audit activities ( ISO 9001 and OHSAS) based upon the criticality of the processes as well as input of management. MR can be two or one, no matter. It matters the process approach.
You should not audit for "department", that is functional approach.
If you need to audit safety related processes, MR shall designated ad hoc team, choosing internal auditors not belonging to that area.
In this case, quality team could perform the internal audit if they are competent ( I mean knowledge of OHSAS standard etc...) . You can put this audit in quality audit program if you do not have one integrated ( quality and safety).
Hope this helps:bigwave:
 

eternal_atlas

Involved In Discussions
#3
Re: Audit of MR Functions (ISO 9001 & OHSAS 18001)

Hi Suresh,
nice to meet.
First of all , I think that table 1 Annex A in OHSAS 18001 is very useful for correspondence between ISO 9001 and OHSAS standard.
There is no requirement vs the first question you did. I do not know if you have integrated systems management. In this case you can plan integrated internal audit activities ( ISO 9001 and OHSAS) based upon the criticality of the processes as well as input of management. MR can be two or one, no matter. It matters the process approach.
You should not audit for "department", that is functional approach.
If you need to audit safety related processes, MR shall designated ad hoc team, choosing internal auditors not belonging to that area.
In this case, quality team could perform the internal audit if they are competent ( I mean knowledge of OHSAS standard etc...) . You can put this audit in quality audit program if you do not have one integrated ( quality and safety).
Hope this helps:bigwave:
We dont have integrated management system in our company.

Thats why, the corporate safety department fuctions supporting the projects are being audited by both the internal audit process of QMS team and OHSAS team.

Why should we need QMS audit as the OHSAS audit criteria covers the QMS mandatory clauses such as (Corr. Prevn. Action,Cont. of docu. contro. of Records etc.)

Pls clarify more
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#4
Re: Audit of MR Functions (ISO 9001 & OHSAS 18001)

We dont have integrated management system in our company.

Thats why, the corporate safety department fuctions supporting the projects are being audited by both the internal audit process of QMS team and OHSAS team.

Why should we need QMS audit as the OHSAS audit criteria covers the QMS mandatory clauses such as (Corr. Prevn. Action,Cont. of docu. contro. of Records etc.)

Pls clarify more
Organizations that have integrated system act in this way to be more effective and efficient. It is a choice, no requirement in this sense, but if you also decide to implement ISO 14001 standard certification, you could think about this. This is a way to work together in an organization, sharing issue, problems and best practices, whatever be the mgmt system ( quality, safety & health or environment)
good luck:bigwave:
 
H

hari_p

#5
Hi All,

I think Suresh's question basically is:

Should the ISO 9001 Audit (Internal as well as External) cover the safety processes of the company. Normally for companies having integrated management system, this won't be a problem. But in Suresh's case, the Safety is isolated from QA.

Thanks.
Harish
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Hi All,

I think Suresh's question basically is:

Should the ISO 9001 Audit (Internal as well as External) cover the safety processes of the company. Normally for companies having integrated management system, this won't be a problem. But in Suresh's case, the Safety is isolated from QA.

Thanks.
Harish
Understood and the response is "it depends".
If the mgmt would like to assess Safety activities because they are critical or there are some open issues or whatelse, an internal audit can be planned and held by independent internal auditors ( for example, quality guys). Clearly the scope and criteria shall be well defined and established.
If the mgmt has planned the safety as one of processes of their QMS, the audit shall be planned inside the internal audit programme ( see clause 8.2.2 of ISO 9001) .
Overall my thought is to consider an internal audit for safety activities, so that other independent "eyes" can assess activities and processes and strive for improvement, giving input to management. This could be a "system audit", starting from input and output of the process ( activities) , in this case Safety, responsibilities, documentation and area procedures, records checking ( including legal compliance), competence and training of the personnel involved, used systems and database,interactions with other processes and activities of the QMS, measurable of the process. At the end, the internal audit could evaluate the effectiveness of the safety processes. Checking also at other elements ( for example, costs associated), the step ahead could also be to evaluate the efficiency.
However in the other post, the Cover said that there is a Corporate audit for safety process, and this could ok and respond at the same time.
Make value added internal audit is never lost time, it improves internal process and help organization to mature and grow up.
Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Hi Qusys,

Thanks for your informative reply.

Thanks.
Harish
Appreciated Harish, you are welcome.
Hope to have been clear enough. Sometimes it is very hard to reply in a brief as well as effective way.
I would like to know also other ideas and opinion to help the Cover.
It is good to share other points of view and practical experience in QMS, Safety & Helath system and EMS
Thank you:bigwave:
 
S

samsung

#9
Note: We aware that OHSAS 18001: 2007 standard has been developed in line with ISO 9001:2008 standard. Also, the 6 mandatory clauses are covered in both the standards.
By 6 mandatory clauses, if you mean 'documented procedures', then I must say that those aren't referenced in OHSAS 18001. However, except for 'Control on nonconforming product', OHSAS does specify requirement for having procedures in respect of 5 out of 6 clauses (Doc. control, Record Control, Internal Audit, CA and PA) but not in documented form.
 
#10
Hello Suresh ~~~
Do we have to audit the MR functions against the OHSAS standard as well as ISO 9001 standard?
Yes. As there are different MR for each system in your company, The processes responsible for each MR will be in the audit scope independently. Since you say the management systems are not integrated the audit scope and audit cycle is also perhaps seperate and specific to the scope audited. It is good in a way if you keep this style for internal audit, looking into the strength of your internal audit process.
Do we have to include the internal audit of safety department in the internal audit plan of QMS and OHSAS Audit plan seperately?
It depends how you have mapped your process and interactions. As the QMS is the base standard, an audit of the safety department in the QMS internal audit plan will assess how its performance is effective towards the focus of customer requirement, as against in the OHSAS audit plan where you assess how its performance is effective towards OH&S policy and objectives requirement more as its primary purpose.
Is it enough if we do the internal audit only against the OHSAS 18001 which can fulfil the requirements of ISO 9001 standard requirements also.
Indeed yes and that is the maturity you can grow to when you integrate the management systems. If you view it seperately it may fall short of being enough.
 
Last edited:
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
M Audit of Management Representative Activities ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 26
A Initial Audit Report - Management Representative needs to be more versed General Auditing Discussions 6
H Internal Audit for Management Representative ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 17
G Organizing internal audit program for an Integrated QHSE Management System Internal Auditing 13
Le Chiffre Online training available for ISO/IEC 17021-1: Requirements for bodies providing audit and certification of management systems Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 3
J Audit Checklist for Integrated Management System for ISO 9001:2015, ISO 14001 & OHSAS18001 (IMS) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
D Management of NC after internal system audit IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
N Configuration Management - Physical Audit and Functional Audit for Software and Hardware General Auditing Discussions 4
R ISO 9001:2015 9.3 - Required inputs to the management review - Audit Nonconformance Manufacturing and Related Processes 14
A ITSM (IT Service Management) Ticket Audit Template Service Industry Specific Topics 0
L IATF 16949 Clause 9.2.2.2 Quality Management System Audit IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
S Scheduling a Crisis Management Audit? Reasonable Request? Internal Auditing 2
C IATF Cl. 9.2.2.2 Quality Management System Audit - CQI-23 Molding System Assessment IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
G What to do and prepare for an Integrated Management Systems Audit ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
K Software Configuration Management Audit Questions Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 8
Q Configuration Management Audit AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 10
P Internal Audit Reports reviewed by management? 21 CFR 820.22 Interpretation 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 6
J Time frame for Management Review before ISO 14001 precertifcation audit ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
M Risk Management (ISO 14971:2007) Internal Audit Checklist ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 7
V Most Common Internal/External Audit Observations on Risk Management ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 4
T Management Review - Audit Nonconformance ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 15
M Helping Top Management Prepare for an ISO 14001 Audit ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 4
C How should I present Internal Audit results to Management in Management Review Internal Auditing 18
K Sample Questions for Auditing Management Rep , Internal Audit and Reg. Compliance Internal Auditing 7
V Internal Audit of Integrated Management System Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 2
K Should Internal Audit Plan be Approved by Top Management? Internal Auditing 19
B AS9100 (FCA / PCA) of section 7.1.3 - Configuration Management - Audit question AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
Celtic Warrior Consolidating results of LPA (Layered Process Audit) for Management Review Process Audits and Layered Process Audits 13
A Internal Audit for an Integrated Management System (IMS)? Internal Auditing 17
J How to Write the Planned Interval to Conduct Internal Audit, Management Review, etc.. ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
K Statistically Valid Audit Sample for Management System Audits? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 4
J Supplier Quality Management System (QMS) Audit - Formal Documented QMS does not exist ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 14
G Risk Management Audit Pointers for AS9100 Rev C AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 9
B Where do I start when I Internal Audit the Quality Management System? Internal Auditing 8
S Customer Audit needs to see External Supplier Management Procedure Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 7
E Internal Audit for Project Management Team - Construction Industry Internal Auditing 8
D Management Review Analysis of Internal Audit Findings Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 8
L Top Management - Internal Audit Questions to Ask Internal Auditing 17
M Internal Audit for ISO 14001 - Questions for Management Internal Auditing 12
G Questionnaire for Internal Audit of Top Management Internal Auditing 9
O Audit Frequency and Management Commitment questions ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
O Management Review Inputs and Outputs - AS9100 Registration Audit Requirements Management Review Meetings and related Processes 16
E Internal Audits - Presenting Audit Findings to Upper Management General Auditing Discussions 19
S Auditing the Top Management during the Opening Meeting of Internal Audit Internal Auditing 21
6 Management Review does not highlight Internal Audit Finding - Root Cause Analysis General Auditing Discussions 11
Jen Kirley Anyone have an audit checklist for PSM (Process Safety Management)? Internal Auditing 1
V Management of Audit Visits General Auditing Discussions 1
E Management Review - Internal Audit AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
A How to Audit ISO 17025 Clause 4.2.7 - Upper Management ISO 17025 related Discussions 1
M Differences between ISO 14001 and EU Eco-Management and Audit Scheme (EMAS) ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom