Audit of off line sites such as Sales offices by 3rd Party Assessor

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kevin.reilly

#1
Audit of off line sites by 3rd Party Assessor

Hi
I am quality manager for an electronics company in Scotland. Hello and congratulations on a very useful forum. My question is regarding contridictory information I am getting from Assessor and my reading of the Rules. I think that the 3rd party assessor has to audit all off-line sites. Specifically we have sales offices in two other countries that I think this applies to. However the opinion from the assessor is that, if all the information is present at the loacl site, there is no need to visit the off site offices.

Sorry if its a basic question but your answers will be apprieciated.

K
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
IMO, if your assessor s satisfied with the documentation you have at your local site then I would see no problem. You could, however, formallly request in writing that your assessor audit the off-sites. You could also present this tio the IOAB for review.
 
T

tomvehoski

#3
Kevin,

Your assessor seems to make sense. If it is only sales that is taking place at the other offices you will probably have the information they need to verify at the manufacturing site.

If you want to have the other offices listed on your certificate, it may be necessary to visit them. Non-manufacturing sites cannot be registered to 16949 alone, but can be listed as support sites.

Assume your manufacturing plant is in Scotland and you have a sales office in the US. If you want the US office to be able to tell customers they are certified, a visit is probably required. If it is acceptable to have them say "the plant in Scotland is certified, we are just a sales office", then I would save the cost and only have the main site in Scotland audited.

Hope this helps,

Tom
 
G

Gayle215

#4
The rule states that for multiple site cerification, "sampling" of sites is not allowed. What I'm not clear on is the statement "the audit of a design center shall cover the complete scope of that center".
At our corporate headquarters we provide the sales and Design/Development for our manufacturing companies. Does this mean we will be audited on areas such as management responsibility, process links and interaction of areas outside of Sales and Design/Development? Though we cannot hold certification we would like to be compliant in all areas, to complement our mfg. co. but have not concentrated on transitioning documents, etc to meet TS.
I'm told only the Quality Manual was submitted so I don't know how readiness was determined for our processes.

Sorry for the long wind but, I'm getting conflicting information and not sure what we need to do to support the mfg. co.

Any input would be appreciated
 
V

Valeri

#6
We are certified to ISO/TS 16949:2002 and have multiple site certifications. We have Division headquarters and a design & development center which are listed on all site certificates. The audit at division consists of management review, purchasing, sales, human resources, document control, quality records, internal audits and corrective/preventive actions. The audit at the design & development center includes the document control, quality records, internal audits and corrective/preventive actions in addition to the normal design activities.
 
R

ralphsulser

#7
Off site support functions part of site audit?

I too am wrangling with this. A registrar, and a consultant have told us that since we have sites in Japan, (Corporate Hdqtrs) providing APQP, FMEA, Control Plan and Process design information documents, plus a sales office in Detroit that handles RFQs that they will have to be audited as part of our TS16949:2002 certification process.
When we receive the info from Japan on process design, and APQP, FMEAS, Control Plans, Operator Process Instructions, etc, we then modify these documents to match the exact plant process consitions and change them prior to PPAP submission.

Another consultant stated that we could treat the Japan facility as a subcontractor to get by the audit requirement, but the sales office would have to be audited for contract review. Today, one of our plants in Hungay said they got TS certified with out any requirements for off site audits.Now the president wants to know why we do.
Any help to clarify this would be appreciated. :bonk:
 
R

ralphsulser

#8
ralphsulser said:
I too am wrangling with this. A registrar, and a consultant have told us that since we have sites in Japan, (Corporate Hdqtrs) providing APQP, FMEA, Control Plan and Process design information documents, plus a sales office in Detroit that handles RFQs that they will have to be audited as part of our TS16949:2002 certification process.
When we receive the info from Japan on process design, and APQP, FMEAS, Control Plans, Operator Process Instructions, etc, we then modify these documents to match the exact plant process consitions and change them prior to PPAP submission.

Another consultant stated that we could treat the Japan facility as a subcontractor to get by the audit requirement, but the sales office would have to be audited for contract review. Today, one of our plants in Hungay said they got TS certified with out any requirements for off site audits.Now the president wants to know why we do.
Any help to clarify this would be appreciated. :bonk:
Is there anyone who can help clarify the above
 
S
#9
ralphsulser said:
I too am wrangling with this. A registrar, and a consultant have told us that since we have sites in Japan, (Corporate Hdqtrs) providing APQP, FMEA, Control Plan and Process design information documents, plus a sales office in Detroit that handles RFQs that they will have to be audited as part of our TS16949:2002 certification process.
When we receive the info from Japan on process design, and APQP, FMEAS, Control Plans, Operator Process Instructions, etc, we then modify these documents to match the exact plant process consitions and change them prior to PPAP submission.

Another consultant stated that we could treat the Japan facility as a subcontractor to get by the audit requirement, but the sales office would have to be audited for contract review. Today, one of our plants in Hungay said they got TS certified with out any requirements for off site audits.Now the president wants to know why we do.
Any help to clarify this would be appreciated. :bonk:
#1 - Although consultants provide a worthwhile service there opinions pertaining to this issue will fall on deaf ears.
You registrar has the final word. If you do not agree with your registrar ask them to set a meeting with the IAOB to attempt resolution.
As for your plant in Hungay I can only assume that the registrar/auditor was not made aware of support sites. The "Rules" are very clear on this issue.

#2 - Para 2.3 of the "Rules" "Supporting functions on site or remote e.g., engineering, contract review, purchasing, warehouses, shall be included in the initial and on-going surveillance audits. Audit palnning and execution shall take into account all supporting sites and support activities, and the interfaces between them shall be defined and audited. The certification body audit plan shall reflect all applicable clauses at each location. Supporting functions shall be audited as they support a site but cannot obtain independent ISO/Ts 16949 certification. Design function, on site or remote, shall undergo surveillance audits at least once within each consecutive 12 month period."
 
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ralphsulser

#10
Sam, Thanks for your reply. However am I missing something regarding the "Rules 2.3" you referenced?
I have the TS Guidence, TS Specification, and TS Assessment Check List books, but do not have a "Rules" book. is there one I am missing?
Thanks
 
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