Audit Readiness/Sillyness

W

Wallyowally

#1
Audit Readiness Sillyness

Hi all,

I'm new here. What a great place, the information abounds!

I haven't been audited for several years so I have a question if certain practices still exist. I considered these some of the silly parts :vfunny: of ISO 9000.

1. Quality Policies: Is is still required/preferred for all employees to memorize the policy? I just can't do the little plastic card thing as it seems too fake/hokey for me.

2. "For reference only". If the QMS is online, is it still necessary to write "For reference only" on all printed documents? At my last company this was a little exercise we did before each audit and it made the auditor happy.

Thanks,

Wally
 
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#2
Wallyowally said:
Hi all,

I'm new here. What a great place, the information abounds!

I haven't been audited for several years so I have a question if certain practices still exist. I considered these some of the silly parts :vfunny: of ISO 9000.

1. Quality Policies: Is is still required/preferred for all employees to memorize the policy? I just can't do the little plastic card thing as it seems too fake/hokey for me.

2. "For reference only". If the QMS is online, is it still necessary to write "For reference only" on all printed documents? At my last company this was a little exercise we did before each audit and it made the auditor happy.

Thanks,

Wally
First of all, Wally Welcome to the Cove! :bigwave:


Both of these things have be tossed about over a variety of threads. But here is my quick take.

1. Your folks need to "Know" the quality policy. They need to know how it affects them and how they affect it. Just memorizing it or reading it off a card does little to make it "real" to them (IMNSHO)

2. "For reference only" has recently been discussed in our documentation forum (I believe). But I say that all "for reference only" material needs to be burned. If you use it, it needs to be controlled.

Hope that helps.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#3
db said:
2. "For reference only" has recently been discussed in our documentation forum (I believe). But I say that all "for reference only" material needs to be burned. If you use it, it needs to be controlled.
Theoretically, true and I agree. I'm not a fan of uncontrolled documents by any means.

But in the real world there are lots of reasons for uncontrolled copies of documents in a company. It really depends upon the company, their processes and other factors.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#4
Hiya Wally..... :bigwave:

1st..Go along with db on this.

2nd..whenever I see one of those silly plastic cards I tend to have a post traumatic stress disorder attack (former Marine here), as do other auditors
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#5
1. Agree with db on this one. Personally, I never ask "What is your Quality Policy?" - instead, I ask "What does it mean to you?" or "How does your job impact Quality?" Sure, I've heard some pretty interesting responses, but these questions will illicit responses that are more informative than asking them to repeat the Quality Policy back at you.

2. You need to document your document control processes, right? So in there, put in something to the effect that all electronic documents are controlled copies and all hard copies are not unless otherwise indicated with a stamp in a non-black ink. Gets away from that "For Reference Only" mumbo-jumbo that never really impressed me. In my organization, all controlled documents are maintained electronically. Unfortunately, with the nature of my organization, should the computer system crash, we can not stop our manufacturing processes - so there are some controlled hard copies on the floor that are clearly identified via a non-black ink stamp and who's location is recorded within our document control software.
 

gpainter

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
1. The QP does not have to be from memory. The important question is how does what you do help your company to achieve it. Cards- are they controlled, how will you replace all them in a 1000person company and make sure you get them all back- try banners, a lot easier to control. MO get rid of the QP completely, remove it from the standard. I guess it is a Dr. D thing.
2. How do you define it? If an operator uses it, then it is a WI and needs control.
 
L

leanne - 2009

#7
db said:
First of all, Wally Welcome to the Cove! :bigwave:

Both of these things have be tossed about over a variety of threads. But here is my quick take.

1. Your folks need to "Know" the quality policy. They need to know how it affects them and how they affect it. Just memorizing it or reading it off a card does little to make it "real" to them (IMNSHO)

2. "For reference only" has recently been discussed in our documentation forum (I believe). But I say that all "for reference only" material needs to be burned. If you use it, it needs to be controlled.

Hope that helps.
:bigwave:

Agreed on number 1.

On number two, are we talking about hard copies of QMS docs or something else entirely? Our QMS docs print out with verbiage indicating that the controlled copy is online. Our drawings are also online. Some people do better with a paper copy than on screen. Including me at times. I just cannot study a complex C or D sized casting drawing on a 17" monitor. I want a hard copy on my desk. As an auditor, I do not have a problem with this as long as the auditee shows me they are checking the online version for current status before using a hard copy printed version. Technically, these hard copies are uncontrolled & "for reference only". Or are you talking about other "for reference only" documentation? In which case, what DB says...

Now, on another note....Time to burn all those SPC & Sick Sigma books for reference only books as they are "out of control" :biglaugh:
 
C

C Emmons

#8
1. Our auditor normally poses the question: "Does your company have a quality policy? How do you play a part in the policy? They are expecting the employee to be aware of it and how they help achieve it.

2. Our QS is online. There is a "disclaimer" which prints out on the bottom of every page that states "The master document is controlled electronically. Printed copies of this document are not controlled. Quality document users are responsible for ensuring prited copies are valid prior to use.
 
W

Wallyowally

#9
1. I'm agreeing with the thoughts on quality policies. Silly cards are out (whew!). Memorizing is not necessary. Actually understanding the meaning and how it applies to "me" is a good thing (required).

2. On the "For reference only" question, I'm interested in opinions about printing such things as the Corrective Action process, the Employee Training process, or the Peer Review process. From the thoughts above, I can either A) forbid printing, B) get "for reference only" or "uncontrolled" on all printed versions either manually or automatically, or C) Note in the Quality Manual that on-line is official and *ALL* printed versions are uncontrolled/for reference only. I like "C" but want opinions on its validity/acceptability.

Wally
 
C

Craig H.

#10
Wallyowally said:
From the thoughts above, I can either A) forbid printing, B) get "for reference only" or "uncontrolled" on all printed versions either manually or automatically, or C) Note in the Quality Manual that on-line is official and *ALL* printed versions are uncontrolled/for reference only. I like "C" but want opinions on its validity/acceptability.

Wally
Wallyowally:

You might be able to make an audit case for "C", but from a practical standpoint, I'm uncomfortable. "B" is a much, much better option, IMHO.

Craig H.
 
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