Audit Schedule for Multi Site Certification

MichelleD

Involved In Discussions
#1
In need an opinion and I know I can count on all of you. :D Our company has just been recertified to ISO 9001 but this time management decided to do a multi site certificaiton. One of our findings was that we did not have a comprehensive audit plan and schedule that encompasses all sites. Do we need to have one schedule for all sites or can the sites continue to use their own but be monitored by the corporate quality department. I have my opinion (of course) but I would like to get feedback how it's being done at other companies.
 
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Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#2
In need an opinion and I know I can count on all of you. :D Our company has just been recertified to ISO 9001 but this time management decided to do a multi site certificaiton. One of our findings was that we did not have a comprehensive audit plan and schedule that encompasses all sites. Do we need to have one schedule for all sites or can the sites continue to use their own but be monitored by the corporate quality department. I have my opinion (of course) but I would like to get feedback how it's being done at other companies.
As long as the audits are scheduled, performed at each location and properly managed, I would not see a problem. I might recommend that a common format might be beneficial, but that would be an OFI at best. I am not aware of any specific ISO rules on the issue.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#3
Do we need to have one schedule for all sites or can the sites continue to use their own but be monitored by the corporate quality department.
I would like to suggest you peruse paragraph 3.0.5 of the IAF Mandatory Document IAF MD 1:2007 Certification of Multiple Sites Based on Sampling. It indicates that, for multi-site certified organizations, the corporate office must be involved with the planning and result analysis of the internal audit program. If you were to leave to the individual sites to plan the audits, they might not plan to audit processes with the frequency and depth they should, from a corporate perspective.

I would think that the proper way to plan an internal audit schedule would be a collaborative effort between the sites and the corporate location, but the central office should have overriding rights, of course.
 

MichelleD

Involved In Discussions
#5
With management, I'm running into a brick wall. Their stand is as long as we are evaluating the audits and corrective actions at each site we shouldn't have to look at them as a whole across all 5 sites. But our ISO auditors wrote us 2 major correctives actions for not having a "systematic" way of evaluating audits and CAR's from all the sites. I want them to understand that we should do this not just because of ISO but because it makes sense for us a business to send trends and areas that are weak.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#6
With management, I'm running into a brick wall. Their stand is as long as we are evaluating the audits and corrective actions at each site we shouldn't have to look at them as a whole across all 5 sites. But our ISO auditors wrote us 2 major correctives actions for not having a "systematic" way of evaluating audits and CAR's from all the sites. I want them to understand that we should do this not just because of ISO but because it makes sense for us a business to send trends and areas that are weak.
The premise behind a multi-site certification is centrally managed QMS. The system needs to be managed even if the individual schedules are local. There also was a Guide 62(?) comment I saw some time back that said audit findings must be reviewed across the board by all sites for applicability.

There is good business reasons for these rules. If they don't like to operate as a multi-site, they can always give up the multi-site certification and discount...:D
 

MichelleD

Involved In Discussions
#7
The premise behind a multi-site certification is centrally managed QMS. The system needs to be managed even if the individual schedules are local. There also was a Guide 62(?) comment I saw some time back that said audit findings must be reviewed across the board by all sites for applicability.

There is good business reasons for these rules. If they don't like to operate as a multi-site, they can always give up the multi-site certification and discount...:D
That's what I told them. But I don't think they wanted to hear it. :bonk: I think things should be as simple as possible. And I don't think having multiple schedules at the sites is the simplest way to do it. Most of our processes are the same and some of our auditors will be going from site to site to audit. Why not have one schedule so everyone will know the dates and the auditor assigned?
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#8
That's what I told them. But I don't think they wanted to hear it. :bonk: I think things should be as simple as possible. And I don't think having multiple schedules at the sites is the simplest way to do it. Most of our processes are the same and some of our auditors will be going from site to site to audit. Why not have one schedule so everyone will know the dates and the auditor assigned?
Would it be more effective to simply go directly to the audit managers at each site, and propose joining programs? Or, better, mock up a best in class audit schedule that everyone would want to use. Then, you have bargaining power.

The last option is to let your 3rd party auditor "discover" the problem during their audits...
 

MichelleD

Involved In Discussions
#9
Would it be more effective to simply go directly to the audit managers at each site, and propose joining programs? Or, better, mock up a best in class audit schedule that everyone would want to use. Then, you have bargaining power.

The last option is to let your 3rd party auditor "discover" the problem during their audits...
I am working on an audit schedule I think everyone will use. "Fingers crossed" I have a plan that I'm bringing to management on how we can have one system but I wanted to bounce my ideas on here and see how everyone else felt about it. And remember the 3rd party auditor already "discovered" it - That's why we have a major NC that has to be answered in the next 60 days.
 
J

joshua_sx1

#10
That's what I told them. But I don't think they wanted to hear it. :bonk: I think things should be as simple as possible. And I don't think having multiple schedules at the sites is the simplest way to do it. Most of our processes are the same and some of our auditors will be going from site to site to audit. Why not have one schedule so everyone will know the dates and the auditor assigned?
…internally? this can be done… provided that you have enough no. of qualified internal auditors on each sites (and that they should be independent from the site they are auditing)…
 
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