Audit Scheduling for TS16949 - Audit split up by several 'working days'

#1
Hello Everyone,
Sorry I've been inactive for so long. Verrrrry busy here!

Background:
We registered to TS16949 with a 4 day audit 20 June 2005 through 23 June 2005. Audit closed 22 July 2005. Our certificate is dated 01 August 2005 and is valid through 31 July 2008. We had a 2 day Periodic Audit #1 24 & 25 January 2006. Our 2 day Periodic Audit #2 was scheduled for 20 & 21 July 2006.

So, our auditor has a travelling delay and will only be here 21 July 2006 (Friday). Scheduling may prohibit finishing the audit on 24 July 2006 (Monday). It is my understanding that TS rules prohibit "split" audits (i.e. 2 days separated by working days).

Question:
Can we do a one day audit and pick up the other day in January 2007 with Periodic Audit #3? Do we need to just reschedule both days for, say, August 2007? I have a less than complete understanding of the TS rules for Registrars.

-Icy Mt.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
OK, I might have answered my own question.
Automotive Sertification Scheme for ISO/TS 16949:2002 Rules for achieving IATF recognition said:
Audited entity: Number of employees = 55-71, Minimum audit days for Stage 2 site audit = 5.0
Requirements on Audit Days #9. The number of audit days during the period of validity of the certificate shall be the number of initial audit days in the calculation illustrated in the table above. There shall be at least one surveillance audit per year (minus three months, plus one month). Surveillance audits shall be of equal duration and rounded up to the nearest half day.
So, I still have 55-71 employees. Doesn't the above mean I only need to have 5 surveillance audit days, TOTAL, between my July 2005 Stage 2 audit and my June 2008? At least 3 annual audits of 2 days each. My contract is for 2 audit days every 6 months (Jan 06, July 06, Jan 07, July 07, Jan 08). Haven't we already satisfied the requirement for the July 05 to July 06 period?
-Icy
 
T

Teresa1000

#3
Icy Mountain said:
Doesn't the above mean I only need to have 5 surveillance audit days, TOTAL, between my July 2005 Stage 2 audit and my June 2008? At least 3 annual audits of 2 days each. My contract is for 2 audit days every 6 months (Jan 06, July 06, Jan 07, July 07, Jan 08). Haven't we already satisfied the requirement for the July 05 to July 06 period?
-Icy
Hmm… In my limited understanding of 3rd party audits, it seems you’ll need 2 annual surveillance audits for a total of 5 audit days. (July 2006 & July 2007). Around July 2008 you’ll have a Re-certification audit for another 3.5 audit days (employees remaining constant). If the contract with your Certification Body is for 2 audit days every 6 months, by my calculation you’ll have 10 audit days by the time you're due for the re-cert audit (Jan. 2006, July 2006, Jan 2007, July 2007, Jan 2008). This says to me that you don’t really need Friday’s audit as far as audit days go.

However, in Auto Cert Scheme, Rules 2 under clause 9.3.1.1 “The certification body shall have an established program for carrying out periodic surveillance audits….” I’m not sure you can skip or reduce this month’s audit.

I work for a company with ~ 180 employees and we just had an annual surveillance audit for 3.5 days. I’m not sure we can handle one every six months.

Hope this helps
 
V

vanputten

#4
Hello Icy Mountain:

Our TS surveillance audits are 9 days. More than once those 9 days have been split up - not all consecutive business days.

I don't know the rule but we have had non-consecutive audit days multiple times in the past.

Regards,

Dirk
 
#5
DNV approved a 1.2 day audit. Our business day runs from 6 AM to 5 PM. For the reasons listed above this is satisfactory to satisfy the IATF. There is some leeway for unforseen circumstances.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#6
Usually you're only allowed to do one day's audit in a 24-hour period. But, in order to cover shift work I've had to do more than one day's auditing within a day for TS 16949 surveillance audits. For example with a three-shift operation I had to come in early in the morning to cover the early shift and day shift. I had to take an extended break (roughly four hours), then come in to cover the night shift.

The TS "Rules" document says: "The number of audit days may not be reduced by programming longer hours per work day. The only exception is on days when shift work is being covered..."

As far as splitting up the audit into non-consecutive days, I don't see anything in the rules that prohibits it.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#7
Icy Mountain said:
OK, I might have answered my own question.
So, I still have 55-71 employees. Doesn't the above mean I only need to have 5 surveillance audit days, TOTAL, between my July 2005 Stage 2 audit and my June 2008? At least 3 annual audits of 2 days each. My contract is for 2 audit days every 6 months (Jan 06, July 06, Jan 07, July 07, Jan 08). Haven't we already satisfied the requirement for the July 05 to July 06 period?
-Icy

You need to discuss this with your registrar. This is important stuff to your certificate, and you don't want an auditor to accidently mess it up.

If I am doing the math correctly, the Rules 2nd ed, Annex 3, pg 23 says for 55-71 employees:

Stage 2 audit - 5.0 days, not 4.0. If not design responsible, deduct 15%.
If upgrade from QS-9000, you may deduct 30% as well, which would get you to the 4 days.

Annual surveillance - 5.0 / 3 = 1.67 days, which rounds up to 2.0 days per year. If you do a semi-annual cycle, then it is 2.0 / 2 = 1.0 day per surveillance.

Recert audit - would be 3.5 days in place of the surveillance audit the third year.

Split audits are not permitted.
 
#8
Thanks for the answers guys. Since our original audit was 5 days and we have a contracted schedule with DNV to do 2 days every 6 months, we would have had 10 audit days between certification and recertification. Reducing this by one day and still maintaining "established programme" schedule doesn't pose a rules problem.
-Icy
 
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