Audit Technique to find rework in a process area?

eternal_atlas

Involved In Discussions
#1
We have a quality policy to minimize rework in all process areas. But,when we go for audit, we find difficult in identifying the rework happened in that area. The reason is, auditee are very defensive which makes me to dig out to the core to find.. even in construction process are also, we got the answer there is no rework..

My question is :

1. Do you have any audit techniques to reveal the rework areas during audit?
2. What are the potential areas of rework irrelevant to the process areas?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Randy

Super Moderator
#2
Re: Audit Technique to find out the rework in a process area?

1st you really need to get your terms correct...Do you have a quality policy about rework or do you have a quality procedure governing rework?

Next, Audit techniques to reveal rework? How about honesty in the organization? Other that hanging around waiting for rework to happen and seeing it you'll have to follow the paper trail...if there is a paper trail.

Potential areas of rework? What's the product?
 
T

Ted Schmitt

#3
Re: Audit Technique to find out the rework in a process area?

We have a quality policy to minimize rework in all process areas. But,when we go for audit, we find difficult in identifying the rework happened in that area. The reason is, auditee are very defensive which makes me to dig out to the core to find.. even in construction process are also, we got the answer there is no rework..

My question is :

1. Do you have any audit techniques to reveal the rework areas during audit?
2. What are the potential areas of rework irrelevant to the process areas?
If it´s a policy of your organization to minimize rework, how about asking for an Indicator which will demonstrate the amount of rework in any particular product or process?
 

atitheya

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
I completely agree with Randy,

Also,

How about looking at the records of checks, tests and inspections done on the product. If the product (or intermediate product) did not match the criteria, what was done - was there a re-work? Look at your procedure of Control of non-conforming products. What happens in the event of a non-conforming product?

IMHO considering your promise of reducing rework, it will be better to have a system of collecting and analyzing such data periodically and look at the trend. Then further deciding on the action for progress in desired direction. Looking for such data / evidence in internal audit may not be very effective. You have talked about reducing rework, not eliminating, yet.
 
Last edited:

rstocum

Involved In Discussions
#5
I deduce that you need advice about finding out how much rework the auditees are really doing because you can't count on honesty. I am familiar with this - it is very common in union organized plants in the US. Entrenched interests and all that.

A previous post mentioned going to the records first. Very good advice. This will only be a problem if there are no records or the records are falsified. If you have a way of tracking particular jobs, job orders or batches of parts you can compare how much time it took to complete the job order or batch to how much time that order or batch was allowed in the tracking system. If you are not using a computerized business management system that has standard times input into a database, you are once again up against the barrier of how honest the people you are auditing are. If you do have that kind of system in place, record the job information about orders or batches that ran significantly over the allowed time and go ask some specific questions about those parts. If the parts themselves are still in house go have a look at them. Hopefully there are characterisitcs of reworked parts that you can identify.

If there is no computer system with the necessary software and database you're next option is to camp out and watch them directly. This can be complicated by the lack of reasonble reasons you might be nearby so often. These guys may be covering their own butts to save their jobs, don't count on them to be stupid.
 
B

Bob Bonville

#6
I think Kumar has the right idea. Typically, rework comes from a disposition on a nonconformance report that starts with some nonconformance. There should be a record of this within your system. Additionally, if you track your labor, your system should have a provision for recording rework labor (sometimes called second pass labor). There is another rework element that involves an individual inspecting their own work, screening for any defects and reworking them on the spot before the item goes to a formal inspection point or the next operation. This is more difficult to identify.

Bob Bonville
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#7
If they don't want to admit that rework takes place, you may have to look at the effects. My guess is that you want to reduce rework because it adds cost. You're in the construction industry? It seems like rework would generally lead to increased time and material costs. Look for these costs and you may find the hidden rework. Ultimately the real metric you want to improve is cost anyway, so why not start there?
 
M

munagada

#8
Firstly, TRUST is very very important.

Secondly, what is your definition of rework, has it been communicated to the worker properly. If it has been communicated, then start measuring against STANDARDs/NORMs prevailed in your industry. If you do not have any, start benchmarking yourself.
regards,
 

eternal_atlas

Involved In Discussions
#9
Re: Audit Technique to find out the rework in a process area?

1st you really need to get your terms correct...Do you have a quality policy about rework or do you have a quality procedure governing rework?

Next, Audit techniques to reveal rework? How about honesty in the organization? Other that hanging around waiting for rework to happen and seeing it you'll have to follow the paper trail...if there is a paper trail.

Potential areas of rework? What's the product?
1. We dont have any quality procedure addressing re-work.
2. Instead of honesty, employees are getting scare of audit due to the management reviewing each line of the audit report and its reaction affects their promotion and bonuses.
3. Paper trail is very difficulty, since we hidden factories are more here.. everybody wants to hide the mistakes..
 

eternal_atlas

Involved In Discussions
#10
Re: Audit Technique to find out the rework in a process area?

If it´s a policy of your organization to minimize rework, how about asking for an Indicator which will demonstrate the amount of rework in any particular product or process?
You are right. Indicator should be there.. I recommended for it,no data is being collected since the project doesnt come across the rework..

Our process areas are like Electro-Mechanical works,Construction,EPCM,Oil and Gas ,Waster water treatement plant maintenance etc.,
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Q ISO 9001-2015 Internal audit finding Internal Auditing 12
lanley liao How to understand this words that the planning of internal audit shall take into consideration the results of previous audits? Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 10
P Audit check for IT company (ISO 9001) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
D Supplier audit Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 2
M Go Live With New ERP System before Recertification Audit General Auditing Discussions 6
A Add MDSAP to Internal Audit Schedule Medical Device Related Regulations 0
A Define timeline for Major and Miner Audit finding General Auditing Discussions 4
J IATF 16949 Internal Audit question - Auditor's responsibility Internal Auditing 6
A API Monogram audit review process Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 4
S IATF 16949 Internal Audit Example IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
B Remote IATF 16949 audit preparation General Auditing Discussions 10
M AS9100D Registrar pre-audit requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 15
I Do I need to sign off my annual audit calendar? Internal Auditing 2
R AS9100D internal audit checklist or ISO 9001 2015 to AS9100 D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
M Nice and simple invitation email to an audit kickoff meeting Internal Auditing 1
M IATF 16949 - Audit of Remote Location/Support Site and IT IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
Q IATF audit - Root Cause Analysis results IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
Q Self-assessment audit information Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 6
Le Chiffre Online training available for ISO/IEC 17021-1: Requirements for bodies providing audit and certification of management systems Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 3
xfngrs NIOSH Audit for N95 respirators US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 1
Sidney Vianna IATF 16949 News Risked Based Audit Day Calculation IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
T AS9100 audit due to facility move AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
M ISO 13485:2016 internal audit checklist Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 5
A Internal Audit Questions ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
B SAP Audit trail Periodic Review EU Medical Device Regulations 1
N What are the software audit and control steps Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 2
R Gap Audit Aerospsace and Rail QMS Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 0
salaheddine96 Internal audit planning Internal Auditing 2
A MDSAP Audit Questionnaire Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 7
H Obligations as a contract manufacturer during an MDSAP audit ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
M What are the basics of Medical Device Single Audit Program (MDSAP)? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
Sidney Vianna IATF 16949 News Update on the IATF CARA Project (“Common Audit Report Application”) - 12/2020 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
R ISO 17025 vertical audit checklist wanted Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2
Z Rapid audit template for plastic parts manufacturing process Manufacturing and Related Processes 12
M ISO 9001 Major Nonconformance Internal Audit Schedule/COVID-19 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
S Quality Audit Training Activities Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 2
G IATF Rules for COVID 5th revision - Re-certification audit timing IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
E MDR internal audit Internal Auditing 1
Ed Panek Remote Audit GOTOMEETING thoughts Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 22
B ISO 9001 - "Remote Audit Fee" Registrars and Notified Bodies 13
L IATF external audit virtual (remote) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
M Audit Criteria Training Materials Internal Auditing 1
K New supplier audit as per V3.1 by French Automotive OEM General Auditing Discussions 2
S Complexity Rating - CB adding another audit day for "high complexity" AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
U Internal Auditor not trained but done Audit for some process Nonconformance and Corrective Action 5
B Looking for 10 Internal Audit Online Training Participants ISO 17025 related Discussions 2
K MDSAP Audit Approach 2020 for Brazil Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 1
K MDSAP Audit Approach 2020 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
J Audit Checklist for Integrated Management System for ISO 9001:2015, ISO 14001 & OHSAS18001 (IMS) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
B IATF16949 audit requirement - Auditor request UCL and LCL must be show Xbar-R, IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7

Similar threads

Top Bottom