C
Corsair
Fellow Covers,
Is anybody familiar in auditing the GRAMS Airbus Spec-?
Is anybody familiar in auditing the GRAMS Airbus Spec-?
Audit to Airbus Specifications - Auditing the Airbus GRAMS Specification
J
Jeff Frost
I don’t know what the GRAMS Airbus Spec are but under your internal audit program you need to add applicable items from the specification to the processes to be audited. During internal audits at the organizations I am affiliated with we audit AS9100, MIL-PRF-31032, internal, customer, CFR, ITAR and RoHS, requirements during audits as applicable.
C
Corsair
GRAMS; General Requirements for Aerostructure Manufacturing Specifications is a Project Management Tool that Airbus introduced in 2009 I believe and is used with their Supply Chain for the A350 program.
It is base on the AS9100.
It is base on the AS9100.
J
Jeff Frost
More than likely they are in addition to requirements specified in AS9100. You have not indicated which standard your quality management system (QMS) is based on but all ISO 9001 based QMS like AS9100 require conformance to the customer’s additional QMS and product requirements/specifications. In case of this Airbus Aerostructure Manufacturing Specifications it must become part of your manufacturing process for their product and as such it becomes part of the your company’s internal audit of the Airbus manufacturing process.
The key to adding additional requirements is a full understanding of how QMS requirements of ISO 9001 and AS9100 fit within your company's system and then layering in the additional QMS requirements from the customer. As an example my current organization needed to obtain Defense Logistics Agency certification to the government’s printed circuit board quality system specification known as MIL-PRF-31032. The task was accomplished in 8 months which I have since learned normally takes between 1.5 to 2 years for most board shops. How did we do it; by fully understanding our QMS and then fitting in only those new requirements from MIL-PRF-3102 that did not already exist in our system. That’s how you do it with Airbus requirements or any other customer requirements.
C
Corsair
Thanks Jeff,
Here is the twist,we awaiting the final audit for certification on the AS9100 Std-,which by the way I don't think we are going to pass.
This GRAMS is based in the AS9100, so I don't know how to digest this one,they do have a lot of non conformances that they are not taking care of.
For example, I'm replacing a supplier rep- that is on medical now and I found out that a couple of the suppliers under his wing will be ready for a FAIunder AS9100 but do not have a PO issued to them.
These requirementa are mention under module 3.1 "Quality Requirements" and Module 4 "Supply Chain".Now I need to find out if is there any other documentation that replaces the PO or the supplier is taking is own risk in a bbig way to start manufacturing without the PO requirements.
Correction, GRAMS meaning General Requirements for Aerostructure and Material Suppliers instead of what I wrote before.
Here is the twist,we awaiting the final audit for certification on the AS9100 Std-,which by the way I don't think we are going to pass.
This GRAMS is based in the AS9100, so I don't know how to digest this one,they do have a lot of non conformances that they are not taking care of.
For example, I'm replacing a supplier rep- that is on medical now and I found out that a couple of the suppliers under his wing will be ready for a FAIunder AS9100 but do not have a PO issued to them.
These requirementa are mention under module 3.1 "Quality Requirements" and Module 4 "Supply Chain".Now I need to find out if is there any other documentation that replaces the PO or the supplier is taking is own risk in a bbig way to start manufacturing without the PO requirements.
Correction, GRAMS meaning General Requirements for Aerostructure and Material Suppliers instead of what I wrote before.
michellemmm
Quest For Quality
I am not familiar with GRAMS, but as the second tier supplier, I have seen how Airbus takes a simple standard and twist it and inflate it.
The engineers are young and inexperienced in supplier development. During PDR, they wrote 95 major non compliance for one document that was generated by one of our supplier.
I wish I could help. I will ask my customer and see if they have been through GRAMS. Please post updates.
Thanks.
C
Corsair
Thanks Michelle,
Is your customer working with the A350 program?
Could well be one of my suppliers that I now have for monitoring their QMS.
Is your customer working with the A350 program?
Could well be one of my suppliers that I now have for monitoring their QMS.
michellemmm
Quest For Quality
Yes, we are working on A350...
No, I don't believe my customer is one of your suppliers. They deal directly with Airbus.
We have to change our system based on our customer's interpretation of Airbus requirement. Our customer has a very mature quality system that is full of "shalls" that are self imposed with no value and has no clue about "process approach." The engineers have no clue about how to manage process interactions...
J
Jeff Frost
Corsair
First, it is time for you to clarify a few items.
1) You keep referring to “They”. Your use of third person references seems to indicate that you are not part of the organization or you have not taken ownership as part of the organization itself. Please define who “they” are and your relationship.
2) Ok you see a problem related to communication with your supplier and one method of communication of requirements call a PO was not used. Are you going to wait and do nothing so the organization fails its AS9100C audit or will you take action to prevent? Obviously you have some background of AS9100 requirements so compile the need records to demonstrated flow down of customer requirements has occurred.
3) Who will be ready for a FAI (first article inspection) your organization or your supplier?
4) Who is the subject of this GRAMS audit by Airbus? Your organization or your supplier or is this to become part of your internal audit requirements.
Yes more than likely the organization will have findings of nonconformity based on the new audit methods and requirements of the aerospace audit standard. This will be the norm for short period of time during CRB audits but when “they” make the needed corrections to the system “they” will get their certification.
First, it is time for you to clarify a few items.
1) You keep referring to “They”. Your use of third person references seems to indicate that you are not part of the organization or you have not taken ownership as part of the organization itself. Please define who “they” are and your relationship.
2) Ok you see a problem related to communication with your supplier and one method of communication of requirements call a PO was not used. Are you going to wait and do nothing so the organization fails its AS9100C audit or will you take action to prevent? Obviously you have some background of AS9100 requirements so compile the need records to demonstrated flow down of customer requirements has occurred.
3) Who will be ready for a FAI (first article inspection) your organization or your supplier?
4) Who is the subject of this GRAMS audit by Airbus? Your organization or your supplier or is this to become part of your internal audit requirements.
Yes more than likely the organization will have findings of nonconformity based on the new audit methods and requirements of the aerospace audit standard. This will be the norm for short period of time during CRB audits but when “they” make the needed corrections to the system “they” will get their certification.
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J
Jeff Frost
This may be of your customer but you are not required to clone there system. You are required to flow their requirements into your systems as appropriate and then show how you have addressed them. I have work in organizations the must meet Boeing, Untied Technology Corp. Airbus, NASA, Etc. plus medical device quality system requirements all at the same time and never once did we clone the customer quality system to show conformance.
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