Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Surveillance Audit

P

puck1263

#1
Hi all -
We just had our yearly audit for TS16949/ISO9001. It was 5 days and we were issued 0 NC. This is rediculous if you saw our system. The auditor did a horrible job. Our registrar is QMI-SAI global

Anyone ever contacted thier registrar and had them do a witness verification audit (not sure if have terminology correct) where the registrar verifies our performance as well as the auditor.
 
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qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Re: Audit verification from registrar - just had survilence audit

Sometimes an IATF representative can join the audit team as a witness of the Registrar audit ( both surveillance or certification).
This is valid from a general standpoint.

Hi all -
We just had our yearly audit for TS16949/ISO9001. It was 5 days and we were issued 0 NC. This is rediculous if you saw our system. The auditor did a horrible job. Our registrar is QMI-SAI global

Anyone ever contacted thier registrar and had them do a witness verification audit (not sure if have terminology correct) where the registrar verifies our performance as well as the auditor.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Re: Audit verification from registrar - just had survilence audit

Ok - so the auditor didn't issue any NC's. That's not always a bad thing and doesn't mean the auditor was not paying attention.

Did he find any over 5 days that were addressed prior to the closing meeting? If that's the case they won't be reported.

Did he leave you with observations or comments that weren't classified as nonconformances?

What were your expectations?
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

Hi all -
We just had our yearly audit for TS16949/ISO9001. It was 5 days and we were issued 0 NC. This is rediculous if you saw our system. The auditor did a horrible job. Our registrar is QMI-SAI global

Anyone ever contacted thier registrar and had them do a witness verification audit (not sure if have terminology correct) where the registrar verifies our performance as well as the auditor.
Sorry - didnt understand you. Why do you feel the auditor did a horrible job ? Did you expect many NC s ?
 
S

somerqc

#5
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

We just had our re-registration audit. We didn't have any findings; however, we did have 11 areas that we are treating like findings within our system.

As an auditor it is very difficult to find things that others who live in it know exist. Unless you "purposely" point them in a direction, they usually don't have the time to investigate in the same manner you would internally.

Further, findings are typically complete system breakdowns not just weak processes. If the weak process meets ISO (or TS) requirements AND you are following it - guess what - there is no finding. The only exception I have been witness to is when this weak process has resulted in the loss of a customer or prevents you from meeting delivery dates or something like that.

Otherwise, you end up with an "area of concern" or "OFI".
 
P

puck1263

#6
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

No - trust me. There were several major non-conformances that he observed directly, that were not corrected during the audit.

These NC's exist because of lack of mgt support. We in the quality dept have been pleading to get some things addressed. We look like idiots and might lose our jobs because the auditor says everything is ok.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

No - trust me. There were several major non-conformances that he observed directly, that were not corrected during the audit.

These NC's exist because of lack of mgt support. We in the quality dept have been pleading to get some things addressed. We look like idiots and might lose our jobs because the auditor says everything is ok.
That's pretty extreme.
How are your jobs in danger if there were no findings? That's kind of counterintuitive.

Lack of managment support is a very broad accusation and very hard to show in a single audit or if the auditor changes every audit. This is not something that would become evident over 5 days unless the whole system was in total disarray.

If you can be more specific in the issues facing your department maybe the experts here can help guide you in solvin your problems without counting on an auditor to catch them. We've all had to deal with lacking managment support in our pasts.... and in the present in many of our cases.
 
P

puck1263

#8
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

A. our jobs are in danger because mgts position is, if we got no problems, what do we need people in quality for.

B. The thread is not to discuss the reasons for my request, but to understand how to contact the registrar for a verification audit and if anyone has done this before.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#9
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

This is usually done in case of eventually contesting a non conformance ( major).
In your case you did not receive any.
If you are determined in this purpose, why don't you ask for changing the registrar in the next surveillance audit?

Then to responde to question a), the measure of your good job is also done in terms of assuring the health of your QMS ( in case of audit of Registrar as well as Customers' one) .

A curiosity for us: could you pls tell the major non conformance not evidenced in the registrar audit, according to you opinion?
Are there any observation or opportunities for improvement?
A. our jobs are in danger because mgts position is, if we got no problems, what do we need people in quality for.

B. The thread is not to discuss the reasons for my request, but to understand how to contact the registrar for a verification audit and if anyone has done this before.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

A. our jobs are in danger because mgts position is, if we got no problems, what do we need people in quality for.

B. The thread is not to discuss the reasons for my request, but to understand how to contact the registrar for a verification audit and if anyone has done this before.

Fair enough.
I just think your efforts would be better directed in a non-punitive direction.
If management found out you're trying to do something like this you're closing the lid on the coffin you seem to believe management has laid out for your Quality function.

I'd still like to know - did the auditor leave you with comments or opportunities for improvement that will help justify your jobs?
 
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