Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Surveillance Audit

P

puck1263

#11
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

Sure - for starters, we were not auditable condition for automotive. We did not have a list of automotive customers. (they were on several uncontrolled spreadsheets across the company, many with errors, exclusions or duplications). We do not have current copies of many CSR's. Some we don't have at all. We are not auditing to any CSRs. CSR's and customer specs are not in our QMS doc control system. Auditor saw all of this.
This was just the morning of day 1.
 
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P

puck1263

#12
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

FYI, the goal is not punitive, but to maintain accountability and integrity in the quality profession. Similar to judicial appeal. IN the last company I worked for, the safety manager ended up calling OSHA himself to have them come audit because of unsafe conditions that mgt chose to turn a blind eye to. He didn't want people hurt and he knew that is what it would take to get attention.
This audit, as the one we have last year, was a joke. It disgraces all of us who are quality professionals and auditors. It doesn't help us, the registrar, ISO or society (as evidenced in recent Toyota issues).
I didn't quite want to get into this detail.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#13
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

FYI, the goal is not punitive, but to maintain accountability and integrity in the quality profession. Similar to judicial appeal. IN the last company I worked for, the safety manager ended up calling OSHA himself to have them come audit because of unsafe conditions that mgt chose to turn a blind eye to. He didn't want people hurt and he knew that is what it would take to get attention.
This audit, as the one we have last year, was a joke. It disgraces all of us who are quality professionals and auditors. It doesn't help us, the registrar, ISO or society (as evidenced in recent Toyota issues).
I didn't quite want to get into this detail.
yes - but mangement will see it as punitive.
And voluntary QMS's do not have whistleblower protection that FDA and OSHA have. So names will be be named and they will know who complained. If they really are as uncaring as you are leading me to believe then you will be out a job.

Yes - I've been in these shoes where managment support was pathetic. And I lost that job because I was the QA Manager and I spoke my mind about it.

so be careful in your crusade.

now - back to the main subject if anyone has any suggestions.
 
P

puck1263

#14
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

Yeah you are probably right.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#15
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

However it seems very strange..
ISO TS certification is divided into two phase: first is Readiness review and then , within a set interval of time, the Certification
Audit.
My question is: what did the auditor check in readiness review???


Sure - for starters, we were not auditable condition for automotive. We did not have a list of automotive customers. (they were on several uncontrolled spreadsheets across the company, many with errors, exclusions or duplications). We do not have current copies of many CSR's. Some we don't have at all. We are not auditing to any CSRs. CSR's and customer specs are not in our QMS doc control system. Auditor saw all of this.
This was just the morning of day 1.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#16
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

However it seems very strange..
ISO TS certification is divided into two phase: first is Readiness review and then , within a set interval of time, the Certification Audit.
My question is: what did the auditor check in readiness review???
The OP is clearly referring to a surveillance audit, for which there is no 2-stage approach.
We just had our yearly audit for TS16949/ISO9001.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#17
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

I would think that the best approach would be to phone the CB's certification/technical manager. First let them know that you need confidentiality - you don't want your company to know that you complained. Then express your concerns with the auditor's performance. They may or may not take action on the audit that was just completed, but I would expect that they will take action to make sure it doesn't happen again.

If what you're describing is true, it does hurt the credibility of both the CB and the certification process. It also gives the quality professionals in your organization less credibility if you're telling people what needs to be done, and the external auditor shows that it doesn't.
 
D

DrM2u

#18
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

Hi all -
We just had our yearly audit for TS16949/ISO9001. It was 5 days and we were issued 0 NC. This is rediculous if you saw our system. The auditor did a horrible job. Our registrar is QMI-SAI global

Anyone ever contacted thier registrar and had them do a witness verification audit (not sure if have terminology correct) where the registrar verifies our performance as well as the auditor.
It is not uncommon for a registrar to send a witness with an auditor as part of an ongoing annual auditor performance evaluation. The role of the witness could be strictly to observe and evaluate the auditor's performance or to also include some audit duties. Usually an auditor is evaluated more frequently if customers are complaining about his/her performance. There have also been instances where a registrar has re-done the audit if a customer complained about the results or auditor's performance.

As a customer you are entitled to get your money's worth and I am sure that QMI will do their best to meet your expectations. They are not among the largest and best registrars for nothing and each registrar occasionally has a 'rotten apple' in its pool of auditors. My suggestion is for you to contact your account rep and your scheduler to inform them about your lack of satisfcation (do it both in writting and verbally). Notify them of your oppinion about the auditor's performance and ask for two things:
- to have a new auditor appointed and not have that particular auditor assigned to your organization again (persona non-grata :lol:)
- a do-over for your audit as soon as possible; this is dependent on your organization's availabiltiy and the availabiltiy of other qualified auditors; make sure that you ask for the first audit to be disregarded

Good luck and better results!:agree1:
 
D

DrM2u

#19
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

I would think that the best approach would be to phone the CB's certification/technical manager. First let them know that you need confidentiality - you don't want your company to know that you complained. Then express your concerns with the auditor's performance. They may or may not take action on the audit that was just completed, but I would expect that they will take action to make sure it doesn't happen again.
A registrar will not re-do an audit unless the organization (or its MR) formally requests that. The most they might do is change auditors if you complain 'annonimously'. The cost for a do-over is comming out of registrar's pockets since they already invoiced the client once for the service.
 
D

DrM2u

#20
Re: Audit Verification from Registrar - Just had TS16949/ISO9001 Survilence Audit

B. The thread is not to discuss the reasons for my request, but to understand how to contact the registrar for a verification audit and if anyone has done this before.
See my previous posts regardign this. As a former auditor I had the 'privilege' of doing (2) do-over audits in the span of 9.5 years and the 'dishonor' of one customer not wanting me anymore after the first audit because I was too tough on them. After the following audit I spoke with the auditor who went in after me and the findings were consistent. Go figure ... :mg:
 
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