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Auditee offered help with anything in nonconformities

J

juan tamad

#1
hello folks !

i am an internal auditor and just encountered odd experience during the audit. auditee asked me if i need any help in anything in exchange of removal of nonconformities i noted because it will severely affect auditee's performance. i am contemplating that if i raise this to the management, two things might happen:
1) employee might be terminated
2) i might be putting myself to risky position. i have no evidence to present.

please advice.

 

arios

Your Mexican Amigo
#2
hello folks !

i am an internal auditor and just encountered odd experience during the audit. auditee asked me if i need any help in anything in exchange of removal of nonconformities i noted because it will severely affect auditee's performance. i am contemplating that if i raise this to the management, two things might happen:
1) employee might be terminated
2) i might be putting myself to risky position. i have no evidence to present.

please advice.

I think you should notify the issue to your management.
 

Chennaiite

Never-say-die
Trusted
#3
hello folks !

i am an internal auditor and just encountered odd experience during the audit. auditee asked me if i need any help in anything in exchange of removal of nonconformities i noted because it will severely affect auditee's performance. i am contemplating that if i raise this to the management, two things might happen:
1) employee might be terminated
2) i might be putting myself to risky position. i have no evidence to present.

please advice.
Tell the Gentleman, the "help" needed exactly is a genuine Corrective action for the identified non-conformities. It does not harm, trying to change the attitude of the guy.
 

tyker

Involved - Posts
#4
In more than 2 decades of third party auditing, I was never offered a bribe. I now feel totally inadequate.:eek:

Seriously though, if you accept a gift, you'll never be able to carry out an objective audit in that area again and you become a potential blackmail victim. I'd report him first before he reports you for soliciting the bribe.
 
C

ChrissieO

#5
hello folks !

i am an internal auditor and just encountered odd experience during the audit. auditee asked me if i need any help in anything in exchange of removal of nonconformities i noted because it will severely affect auditee's performance. i am contemplating that if i raise this to the management, two things might happen:
1) employee might be terminated
2) i might be putting myself to risky position. i have no evidence to present.

please advice.

Before reporting, I would point out to the auditee how serious the offering of a bribe is and that you are having none of it but also look at ways for him/her to improve and bring the process back into conformity.

But this does raises other questions.

Why would a nonconformance have a bearing on the auditees performance?

If there are problems this serious in an area, why have management not picked up on it before?

Why do management see nonconformances as a bad thing and not welcome them as improvement opprotunities?

What is wrong with the process in the first place to cause the nonconformance?

Is there anything management could of done to prevent this?

I think a serious 5 why analysis is done to find out what really is the root cause of the NC.

As an internal auditor you are really the middle man between your company and your assessor. Your assessor is dependant on internal auditors to do a thorough audit as they would not possibly have time to audit in detail every process. The internal audit is a means of identifying and putting any issues right before your external audits and should be viewed very much as a tool for continous improvement. Failures are very rarely the fault of the individual and usually have some deeper root cause.

Just my opinion of course;)

Cxx
 
#6
How could you possibly consider removing Non-conformances?! That would then become an issue that doesn't improve and could lead to loss of Customers and/or Certification.

I would laugh in the face of the person who proposed it. In my 18 years of auditing I have never received such an offer, possibly due to the fact that everyone knows it wouldn't be worth the effort. This lady is not for turning!

Very obviously, my advice would be to let the non-conformances stand and report the Offender.

Happy Auditing,

Jo
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#7
It is a sad apparent testament to management and cultural failure to establish a functional QMS. Authorities and responsibilities should line up. If they do not, that's an issue aside from the write up. It might be pursuable in other audits as your findings start to form a pattern, and ultimately a picture of system effectiveness.

But what if this person is simply inept, lazy or something else and just hasn't been doing what was needed - and is now fearful of being exposed? That would be unfortunate, but in that case if this person was replaced it might be the best thing for the system. I have seen it before.

In either case, the answer is of course some variation of "no."
:2cents:
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#9
You are, I assume, an actual employee of said company? If so, you should have some insight as to whether you management is so out-of-touch with what a QMS is supposed to do that they would fire an employee for a system problem that they have no power over or if this person is just an inept sandbagger. Either way, there are big problems here and you need to figure out which problem you are facing. If it is systemic and your management picks scapegoats, you need to approach this differently than if the employee is lazy and doesn't want to do his job.
 
J
#10
Tell the Gentleman, the "help" needed exactly is a genuine Corrective action for the identified non-conformities. It does not harm, trying to change the attitude of the guy.
Since we are talking about an internal audit I think that this approach is best.
1) It does not compromise the Audit
2) It does not cause undue problems for either yourself or the auditee.
3) INternal audits can afford to be a little less "formal" than 2nd or 3rd party audits.

As an internal auditor we should want to work with people to help them improve. This does not mean compromising your integrity but rather helping the other person to know that what is needed is to improve the process and the performance.

If proper corrections are not forthcoming there will be plenty of time for management involvement and or disciplinary measures later on.

Peace
James
 
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