Auditee offered help with anything in nonconformities

J

juan tamad

#1
hello folks !

i am an internal auditor and just encountered odd experience during the audit. auditee asked me if i need any help in anything in exchange of removal of nonconformities i noted because it will severely affect auditee's performance. i am contemplating that if i raise this to the management, two things might happen:
1) employee might be terminated
2) i might be putting myself to risky position. i have no evidence to present.

please advice.

 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

arios

Your Mexican Amigo
#2
hello folks !

i am an internal auditor and just encountered odd experience during the audit. auditee asked me if i need any help in anything in exchange of removal of nonconformities i noted because it will severely affect auditee's performance. i am contemplating that if i raise this to the management, two things might happen:
1) employee might be terminated
2) i might be putting myself to risky position. i have no evidence to present.

please advice.

I think you should notify the issue to your management.
 

Chennaiite

Never-say-die
Trusted Information Resource
#3
hello folks !

i am an internal auditor and just encountered odd experience during the audit. auditee asked me if i need any help in anything in exchange of removal of nonconformities i noted because it will severely affect auditee's performance. i am contemplating that if i raise this to the management, two things might happen:
1) employee might be terminated
2) i might be putting myself to risky position. i have no evidence to present.

please advice.
Tell the Gentleman, the "help" needed exactly is a genuine Corrective action for the identified non-conformities. It does not harm, trying to change the attitude of the guy.
 

tyker

Involved - Posts
#4
In more than 2 decades of third party auditing, I was never offered a bribe. I now feel totally inadequate.:eek:

Seriously though, if you accept a gift, you'll never be able to carry out an objective audit in that area again and you become a potential blackmail victim. I'd report him first before he reports you for soliciting the bribe.
 
C

ChrissieO

#5
hello folks !

i am an internal auditor and just encountered odd experience during the audit. auditee asked me if i need any help in anything in exchange of removal of nonconformities i noted because it will severely affect auditee's performance. i am contemplating that if i raise this to the management, two things might happen:
1) employee might be terminated
2) i might be putting myself to risky position. i have no evidence to present.

please advice.

Before reporting, I would point out to the auditee how serious the offering of a bribe is and that you are having none of it but also look at ways for him/her to improve and bring the process back into conformity.

But this does raises other questions.

Why would a nonconformance have a bearing on the auditees performance?

If there are problems this serious in an area, why have management not picked up on it before?

Why do management see nonconformances as a bad thing and not welcome them as improvement opprotunities?

What is wrong with the process in the first place to cause the nonconformance?

Is there anything management could of done to prevent this?

I think a serious 5 why analysis is done to find out what really is the root cause of the NC.

As an internal auditor you are really the middle man between your company and your assessor. Your assessor is dependant on internal auditors to do a thorough audit as they would not possibly have time to audit in detail every process. The internal audit is a means of identifying and putting any issues right before your external audits and should be viewed very much as a tool for continous improvement. Failures are very rarely the fault of the individual and usually have some deeper root cause.

Just my opinion of course;)

Cxx
 

JoCam

Trusted Information Resource
#6
How could you possibly consider removing Non-conformances?! That would then become an issue that doesn't improve and could lead to loss of Customers and/or Certification.

I would laugh in the face of the person who proposed it. In my 18 years of auditing I have never received such an offer, possibly due to the fact that everyone knows it wouldn't be worth the effort. This lady is not for turning!

Very obviously, my advice would be to let the non-conformances stand and report the Offender.

Happy Auditing,

Jo
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#7
It is a sad apparent testament to management and cultural failure to establish a functional QMS. Authorities and responsibilities should line up. If they do not, that's an issue aside from the write up. It might be pursuable in other audits as your findings start to form a pattern, and ultimately a picture of system effectiveness.

But what if this person is simply inept, lazy or something else and just hasn't been doing what was needed - and is now fearful of being exposed? That would be unfortunate, but in that case if this person was replaced it might be the best thing for the system. I have seen it before.

In either case, the answer is of course some variation of "no."
:2cents:
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#9
You are, I assume, an actual employee of said company? If so, you should have some insight as to whether you management is so out-of-touch with what a QMS is supposed to do that they would fire an employee for a system problem that they have no power over or if this person is just an inept sandbagger. Either way, there are big problems here and you need to figure out which problem you are facing. If it is systemic and your management picks scapegoats, you need to approach this differently than if the employee is lazy and doesn't want to do his job.
 
J
#10
Tell the Gentleman, the "help" needed exactly is a genuine Corrective action for the identified non-conformities. It does not harm, trying to change the attitude of the guy.
Since we are talking about an internal audit I think that this approach is best.
1) It does not compromise the Audit
2) It does not cause undue problems for either yourself or the auditee.
3) INternal audits can afford to be a little less "formal" than 2nd or 3rd party audits.

As an internal auditor we should want to work with people to help them improve. This does not mean compromising your integrity but rather helping the other person to know that what is needed is to improve the process and the performance.

If proper corrections are not forthcoming there will be plenty of time for management involvement and or disciplinary measures later on.

Peace
James
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
GStough Auditing Against Criteria Unfamiliar to Auditee - Yea or Nay? General Auditing Discussions 11
K Tips for Auditee Training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
S Experiences as a female auditor / auditee Career and Occupation Discussions 36
S Why auditee names are not mentioned in Audit Report? General Auditing Discussions 2
L How to deal with resistance from auditee(s) Internal Auditing 20
somashekar Internal Audit without a person as auditee Internal Auditing 6
S Internal Audit Findings Summary Rewrite by an Auditee ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
F How to Calm a Nervous Auditee Internal Auditing 14
K Sending Audit Questions to the Auditee in Advance Internal Auditing 20
Howard Atkins What you as an auditee should know about your CB (Certification Body) Registrars and Notified Bodies 0
Jen Kirley What do you do when an auditee says "No thank you" Internal Auditing 86
P What to do when an Auditee Falsifies or Cheated on Records Internal Auditing 6
arios What do you do if you have the feeling that your auditee could be lying? Internal Auditing 58
M What to do when Auditee refuses to sign Audit Report General Auditing Discussions 91
P Internal Audit Finding - Root Cause Analysis: Auditor or an Auditee Responsibility? Internal Auditing 24
B Could ISO 22000 auditee hold Auditor Responsible for subsequent safety breaches? Food Safety - ISO 22000, HACCP (21 CFR 120) 16
V Can the Management Representative represent top management as the sole auditee? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 14
L Corrective action following a wrong answer of the auditee ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 19
B Providing Auditee with Checklist prior to Audit General Auditing Discussions 48
M Auditee Evaluation of Auditors Example, Form or Template General Auditing Discussions 6
E Being IQA Team Leader and auditee - Auditor Independence General Auditing Discussions 9
Claes Gefvenberg The Ideal Auditee General Auditing Discussions 22
J Can I issue a NCR if the auditee did not comply what he is suppose to do? General Auditing Discussions 6
M Offered Management Position - Limited Experience - Any Concerns? Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 13
M CQE Preparation - Classes offered by ASQ or QC Group Professional Certifications and Degrees 9
Hami812 Gage R&R Process Method - Pass/Fail Criteria Offered to Operators vs. Parametric Data Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
kmyers CE Training that is offered about Self Certification CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 2
Anerol C Should I apply for a job if I'm not available to take the job immediately if offered? Career and Occupation Discussions 8
Steve Prevette Statistical Training Offered - Richland, Washington Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 6
L Classes offered for training on composite quality assurance and inspection? Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 2
M Case study help as per ISO 9001: 2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 15
M Case study solution help required as per ISO 9001 : 2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 0
A Beginners help with ISO3951-2 Combined control s-method n>5 what is Phi ?? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 0
MDD_QNA Medical Device Software - Is a Help Button required? IEC 62304 - Medical Device Software Life Cycle Processes 1
S Need help with analysing a survey on minitab Using Minitab Software 1
I Help: QFD House of Quality Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 1
C New to Site - Request Help with API Q2 Implementation Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 10
O Please, help with document on ISO/ TS 17758 and (IDF 87: 1979). Thank you. Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
A Class medical device (MDD) - Classification help EU Medical Device Regulations 1
K A proposal for the model Quality Management - I need help for the project ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
A Help with Drawing Review - ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
Q % Study variation low, % tolerance high - GR&R Interpretation help Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
R Probability - Need a help to solve the below question Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 5
M Thanks for the help Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 0
Judy Abbott Can any one help me with an urgent BIOCOMPATIBILITY Impact assessment? Internal Auditing 9
A Help establishing regulatory requirements - Plastic dental cartridge syringe US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 0
A Medical Device Contract Manufacturing Requirements and Information - Help wanted ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
8 Need Help - Runout - Function Gage Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 7
T Burn out - Tips to help combat QC burnout Career and Occupation Discussions 9
Emran.mi Measurement system analysis - Can you help me about implementation MSA for CMM device Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
Similar threads


















































Top Bottom