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Auditing Abroad - Internal Audits of our European Sister Companies

D

DougieB

#11
#11
Thanks,

I never thought about remote auditing and maybe do that after I am more comfortable with the different locations. We do some manufacturing but it is mostly re packaging of raw materials.
:thanks:
 
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somashekar

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#12
#12
DougieB said:
Thanks,

I never thought about remote auditing and maybe do that after I am more comfortable with the different locations. We do some manufacturing but it is mostly re packaging of raw materials.
:thanks:
Click to expand...
You are required to conduct internal audits at planned intervals to determine whether the quality management system,
- Confirms to planned arrangements
- Is effectively implemented and maintained
My remote auditing (if you mean e-mails and telephone discussions) you may perhaps communicate and get documents what you desire.
For me this falls short of conducting.
Conducting is to organize and carry out.... and from this I take that it is by physical presence at place where audit is to be conducted.
 
S

supermac

#13
#13
Somashekar,
that is your view and I respect it. However I do not accept that conducting requires physical presence with the auditee. If you consult ISO 19011:2011 you will find that remote auditing is acceptible.

I would certainly not conduct an audit by email. If telephony is the only method it is acceptable but not recommended. However, web conferencing is the usual method; it is free (or very cheap), reliable and very flexible.

Remote auditing has been accepted by at least one reputable (and internationally recognised) accreditation body for use by a certification body.

It is widely used in the ICT world. The ability of a remote user to monitor the activity on another computer has been widely used by service organisations for many years to diagnose and correct problems. This technology can be used to audit - it is the equivalent of observing an operator working a machine. Webcams on tablets can be used for live video streaming. There are many other examples.

I hope that you may someday find it a valuable method.
 
somashekar

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#14
#14
supermac said:
Somashekar,
that is your view and I respect it. However I do not accept that conducting requires physical presence with the auditee. If you consult ISO 19011:2011 you will find that remote auditing is acceptible.

I would certainly not conduct an audit by email. If telephony is the only method it is acceptable but not recommended. However, web conferencing is the usual method; it is free (or very cheap), reliable and very flexible.

Remote auditing has been accepted by at least one reputable (and internationally recognised) accreditation body for use by a certification body.

It is widely used in the ICT world. The ability of a remote user to monitor the activity on another computer has been widely used by service organisations for many years to diagnose and correct problems. This technology can be used to audit - it is the equivalent of observing an operator working a machine. Webcams on tablets can be used for live video streaming. There are many other examples.

I hope that you may someday find it a valuable method.
Click to expand...
Thanks Colin...
I am for "Use Technology"
If something can be effectively done, there is nothing more effective than that.
Remote auditing is acceptable, however I would be inclined more on building internal audit competency at sites as an ongoing process, rather then take it to central location remote auditing.
 
Colin

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
#15
#15
I am sorry if I am coming into this discussion a little late but my first steps would be to establish clearly the scope of the audits (what is to be included), the objectives for the audits (why are you being asked to conduct them) and the audit criteria (what will you be auditing against) - with particular emphasis on the last one.

As others have suggested, it may be more appropriate to refer to it as a gap analysis but you can still audit against the standard (do we know it is just 9001 and not 1 of the other variants?).

My view on the independence point would be to not get too hung up on that at this time. The main purpose of that is so that people don't audit their own work, not to stop the person who developed the system from auditing it.
 
D

DougieB

#16
#16
supermac, somashekar and Colin. Thanks very much for all the advice.

I plan to visit the places and see what procedures and processes they have and treat each one individually. If I can help them write procedures I will and later go back and conduct audits of each department. I think the best thing to do is just go out there and see what is the best way to approach it. I will probably not be going until the end of January but looking forward to the challenge. I will probably have to audit every year so maybe in future years I could conduct remote audits once I know the people etc.

Thanks again everyone
 
Paul Simpson

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#17
#17
supermac said:
<snip>that is your view and I respect it. However I do not accept that conducting requires physical presence with the auditee. If you consult ISO 19011:2011 you will find that remote auditing is acceptible.</snip>
Click to expand...
Indeed and I know the guy who pushed to have the changes made to 19011 to allow this flexibility. :notme:
 
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