Auditing in Relationship to Shifts - TS16949

Gabble

Registered
#1
Can anyone comment on these paragraphs in relation to applying ISO/TS16949 How accurate is this?

>>>>>>>>>
"All processes that operate on shifts have to be independently audited across all shifts according to a planned schedule. It is the process that is being audited, not the people, and so auditing each shift as they rotate to days is not covering the intent of the standard.

All production operations / shifts have to be manned with personnel responsible for product quality, independent of production with the authority to stop production to correct quality problems. These personnel must understand all specific customer requirements for quality and communicate any specific details across shifts."
 
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Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
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#2
Re: Auditing in relationship to shifts

Can anyone comment on these paragraphs in relation to applying ISO/TS How accurate is this?

>>>>>>>>>
"All processes that operate on shifts have to be independently audited across all shifts according to a planned schedule. It is the process that is being audited, not the people, and so auditing each shift as they rotate to days is not covering the intent of the standard.

All production operations / shifts have to be manned with personnel responsible for product quality, independent of production with the authority to stop production to correct quality problems. These personnel must understand all specific customer requirements for quality and communicate any specific details across shifts."
I believe I am still a little :confused: on what you are asking about. But I will take a shot as to what I think you are meaning and correct me if I am wrong:

Gabble said:
All production operations / shifts have to be manned with personnel responsible for product quality, independent of production with the authority to stop production to correct quality problems. These personnel must understand all specific customer requirements for quality and communicate any specific details across shifts."
I don't see why this would be required. If your processes are found to be in control, than the added "manpower" is not going to improve anything. Why increase the process inspections, if the processes are in control? In my opinion.

Gabble said:
"All processes that operate on shifts have to be independently audited across all shifts according to a planned schedule. It is the process that is being audited, not the people, and so auditing each shift as they rotate to days is not covering the intent of the standard.
If I am reading this correctly, are you are saying that all shifts need to be audited?
 
T

Teri - 2011

#3
Re: Auditing in relationship to shifts

8.2.2.4 Internal audits shall cover all quality management related processes, activies and shifts, and shall be scheduled according to an annual plan.

5.5.1.1
Covers the shalls for personnel responsible for product quality and staffing for ensuring product quality across all shifts.
 
R

ralphsulser

#4
Yes, all shifts must be audited. Our registrar auditor for TS16949 always audits all shifts, and we do internal audits on all shifts also. Sometimes we have to come in real early to audit the midnight shift.:)
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#5
Can anyone comment on these paragraphs in relation to applying ISO/TS16949 How accurate is this?

>>>>>>>>>
"All processes that operate on shifts have to be independently audited across all shifts according to a planned schedule. It is the process that is being audited, not the people, and so auditing each shift as they rotate to days is not covering the intent of the standard.

All production operations / shifts have to be manned with personnel responsible for product quality, independent of production with the authority to stop production to correct quality problems. These personnel must understand all specific customer requirements for quality and communicate any specific details across shifts."
Where did this come from?

I don't interpret 8.2.2.4 to mean each shift for each process must be covered. I'd be like a hamster in an exersize wheel!

I know someone who has succeeded in arguing that the element means all shifts will be covered, and all processes will be covered.
 
R

ralphsulser

#6
TS 16949:2002
“8.2.2.4 Internal Audit plans
Internal audits shall cover all quality management related processes, activities, and shifts. And shall be scheduled according to an annual audit plan.”


The main processes of our operations are audited on each shift by the CB auditor. Maybe not all on each shift, but a large sampling of core manufacturing processes on each shift. What is not audited this time will usually be audited next surveillance audit. Also internal audits are conducted on each shift the same way.
 

Gabble

Registered
#7
All, thanks for posting the replies - I know it was a bit hurried and confused, but there is good reason for that. I’m being asked to reduce my department (yep QA dept) heads by a dramatic amount. One of the functions we have in our 4 shift operation is a dedicated Quality role on each shift used to conduct ongoing process audits, finished product audits – you know, independent of Production – a lot of containment activity as required (which ok I’m not proud of – a necessary evil!!). These guys do a lot more than just that however, so don’t worry – they also test / release materials, champion a lot of improvement activity, investigate complaints – like ‘on-shift’ Quality Engineers, a nice resource to have! I was just trying to present a reasoned argument, using the almost ambiguity of the standard to try and retain some sliver. It’s ok, I understand the requirements, thanks all for your posts.
 
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