Auditing multiple standards - TS 16949, ISO 14001 & OHSAS 18001

[Wayne G.]

I am managing the internal audit program to 3 standards: TS 16949, ISO 14001 & OHSAS 18001. I have had some success in combining some of the requirements from each standard. For example, all 3 standards have compatible requirements for internal audits, documentation, control of records, management review and these sections/processes can be audited for the most part during 1 audit segment. Question is: Has anyone else had any success at combining audits? Is there a better way.

Thanks

 

[HSSE Auditor]

Re: Auditing multiple standards

Question is: Has anyone else had any success at combining audits? Is there a better way.

Thanks

My experience has been that one or more of the audit areas will suffer. And for example, that folks with more of a QMS background will provide evidence of QMS audit activities while neglecting other areas.

Over time though and with experience, the "QMS" auditors will improve. You might just want to stress the need for evidence of auditing in each audit area.

 

[Benjamin28]

Re: Auditing multiple standards

As suggested this can be difficult. We dealt with this at my previous employer by developing a comprehensive checklist. We combined identical requirements, went by the more stringent requirement when some were similar, and addressed the other requirements as necessary. Combining these three standards into one internal audit will mostly require a very robust internal audit process and talented auditors, I would expect a lot of time investment into audit planning.

 

[AndyN]

I am managing the internal audit program to 3 standards: TS 16949, ISO 14001 & OHSAS 18001. I have had some success in combining some of the requirements from each standard. For example, all 3 standards have compatible requirements for internal audits, documentation, control of records, management review and these sections/processes can be audited for the most part during 1 audit segment. Question is: Has anyone else had any success at combining audits? Is there a better way.

Thanks

Yes! My company developed such training for a major tier 1 supplier and it was very successful. Based on the 'lead auditor' course, it blended all the aspects of quality, safety and environmental management systems so that internal auditors could do a more effective audit. Having coached such a session, although it was tough to get each 'specialist' to see 'the other worlds' it worked out very well.

Often it depends on the degree to which management systems have been 'merged' and also on the 'scope' of the audit. Practically, all aspects of each of the management systems don't have similar 'weight' and can't command the same degree of interest from the auditor, as a result.

 

[Mary McD]

This is a great topic. I actually found this while researching for an article I'm writing for "The Auditor" on this very thing... this topic is close to my heart, as back in 2001 a few of us wrote a book [Integrating Quality, Environmental, and Health and Safety Systems] on this topic, and what has been posted here resonates with what we found back then.

Namely, auditors tend to be more thorough in their "primary knowledge" standard - it simply comes easier to them to cover that standard completely. I also agree that multi-disciplinary auditing can be taught, and auditors can "step up to the plate" and do a great job on multiple standards. Since we included a comprehensive checklist in our book, I would also agree with the statement that a checklist is a great tool!

However, don't for one minute think that if someone only audits one standard, that no audit bias exists. Remember the story about the auditor (background in metrology) who comes into a lab and discovers an employee on the ground, from apparent electrical shock? He first steps over the employee to read the calibration tag on the equipment... then kneels to offer assistance.

Mary McD

 

[Wayne G.]

This is a great topic. I actually found this while researching for an article I'm writing for "The Auditor" on this very thing... this topic is close to my heart, as back in 2001 a few of us wrote a book [Integrating Quality, Environmental, and Health and Safety Systems] on this topic, and what has been posted here resonates with what we found back then.

Namely, auditors tend to be more thorough in their "primary knowledge" standard - it simply comes easier to them to cover that standard completely. I also agree that multi-disciplinary auditing can be taught, and auditors can "step up to the plate" and do a great job on multiple standards. Since we included a comprehensive checklist in our book, I would also agree with the statement that a checklist is a great tool!

However, don't for one minute think that if someone only audits one standard, that no audit bias exists. Remember the story about the auditor (background in metrology) who comes into a lab and discovers an employee on the ground, from apparent electrical shock? He first steps over the employee to read the calibration tag on the equipment... then kneels to offer assistance.

Mary McD

Thanks. You sound very knowledge on the subject matter. I agree, as auditors we are generally more focused in one area because it is what we know best. I have a team of 7 auditors and we decided as a group to use ISO 19011 to guide our training. I facilitate 1/2 day of training prior to each monthly audit. With guest speakers on subject matter, videos, and such, we are all learning what we need to become better auditors in all standards.
Thanks again!

 

[C Emmons]

Interesting subject as I am working on designing a new internal audit program right now. A bit of background:

I am new to a company that currently operates 151 facilities across the US. Since I cam onboard in Febuary we have certified 21 facilities to ISO 9001:2000 and am in process implemeting RC14001. This company has previously conducted internal audits based on "areas" which included the processes for the area, such as: Claims Prevention, Safety, Operations, Maintenance etc. I initially thought to combine everything into one audit but now I am wondering if it is not better to just leave them audit as is (just try to get them all on the same schedule or in the same quarter) and Me and my staff can handle the Integrated Mangement System portion - combine everthing upon completion - opinions? suggestions?

 

[Mary McD]

Interesting subject as I am working on designing a new internal audit program right now. A bit of background:

I am new to a company that currently operates 151 facilities across the US. Since I cam onboard in Febuary we have certified 21 facilities to ISO 9001:2000 and am in process implemeting RC14001. This company has previously conducted internal audits based on "areas" which included the processes for the area, such as: Claims Prevention, Safety, Operations, Maintenance etc. I initially thought to combine everything into one audit but now I am wondering if it is not better to just leave them audit as is (just try to get them all on the same schedule or in the same quarter) and Me and my staff can handle the Integrated Mangement System portion - combine everthing upon completion - opinions? suggestions?

Why don't you try a modified approach and see how it works out? You can try one or two areas to see if combination/integration works; and if not, you already have your fallback plan - leave as is with you handling the integration youselves.

Let us know how you make out!

 

[Jen Kirley]

The audits can be combined. In fact, I recommend it.

Sometimes it's a matter of seizing opportunity, as far as the audit specs allow it. When doing an audit on training records for preventive maintenance, an astute auditor might notice the records lack evidence of training required by OSHA. Otherwise, the audit could in fact be looking for the PM techs' readiness to perform their work in all three systems: quality, environmental and safety.

The audits would be more involved, but by using matrices in the notes it's easily enough managed.

 

[BSMITH]

This is a great topic. I actually found this while researching for an article I'm writing for "The Auditor" on this very thing... this topic is close to my heart, as back in 2001 a few of us wrote a book [Integrating Quality, Environmental, and Health and Safety Systems] on this topic, and what has been posted here resonates with what we found back then.

Namely, auditors tend to be more thorough in their "primary knowledge" standard - it simply comes easier to them to cover that standard completely. I also agree that multi-disciplinary auditing can be taught, and auditors can "step up to the plate" and do a great job on multiple standards. Since we included a comprehensive checklist in our book, I would also agree with the statement that a checklist is a great tool!

However, don't for one minute think that if someone only audits one standard, that no audit bias exists. Remember the story about the auditor (background in metrology) who comes into a lab and discovers an employee on the ground, from apparent electrical shock? He first steps over the employee to read the calibration tag on the equipment... then kneels to offer assistance.

Mary McD

Mary,

We met once when I was the Environmental Manager for a Department of Energy facility and was doing many DOE and EPA audits; I have heard the three of you who wrote the book speak at two ASQ ISO 9001 conferences. Your book was one of the first to integrate all three standards and still is one of the few that I have seen on OHSAS 18001. Unfortunately, I haven't found it on www.ebay.com as yet.

I now work for 2 registrars and teach Lead Auditor courses for a course provider. Integration of standards during auditing has been done for a long time by registrars. Course providers develop lead auditor courses based on ISO 19011, the respective quality, environmental, safety or other standard, and other material. I have been involved with several ISO 9001/ISO 14001/OHSAS 18001 integrated audits and numerous ISO 14001/OHSAS 18001 integrated audits.

Brent Smith
www.isolouisiana.com