Auditing Procedures we Authored - Conflict of Interest?

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CliffK

#11
So in my case I had to write a global procedure, however, I have no authority to make people do it...I guess I should just write the non-conformity now...:D
Optimism would say the implementers will realize the value of the global procedure and voluntarily comply...no NC needed.;)
 
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CliffK

#12
Re: Auditing Procedures we Author - Conflict of Interest?

Andy has it.....it's the unbiased impartiality and objectivity an auditor brings with him that has the value, not the independence.:yes:
True statement. But that pesky ISO 9001 says something about not auditing your own work.

I have seen CB auditors be lenient about the requirement, though; especially with smaller organizations.
 
S

sfkevin

#13
Re: Auditing Procedures we Author - Conflict of Interest?

True statement. But that pesky ISO 9001 says something about not auditing your own work.

I have seen CB auditors be lenient about the requirement, though; especially with smaller organizations.
When we try to register adding AS9120, this could cause a problem. The company, total seven persons including the president, has updated the manual and first level documentation to add AS9120 requirements. I see the possibility of a conflict since all personal was involved in the changes. How would this work out for a final approval?
 
#14
The concept behind not auditing your own work doesn't apply to who wrote the procedures - that's not the work that you can't audit - it's the implementation of the procedures which is the work being audited. Of course, someone might have to revise the procedure to address an audit finding, but that's normal.

In fact, if I remember correctly, this is one place that the standard was revised specifically to allow it more practicality in small businesses.
 
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CliffK

#15
The concept behind not auditing your own work doesn't apply to who wrote the procedures - that's not the work that you can't audit - it's the implementation of the procedures which is the work being audited. Of course, someone might have to revise the procedure to address an audit finding, but that's normal.

In fact, if I remember correctly, this is one place that the standard was revised specifically to allow it more practicality in small businesses.
Andy, what you're saying makes perfect sense. :agree1:

Unfortunately, the standard is still pretty explicit: "Auditors shall not audit their own work." :confused: Surely in a small organization the one-man quality gang will end up verifying that procedures which he has written conform to the requirements of the standard. Such a situation would seem nonconforming, according to a strict interpretation. Or did I miss something?

Interestingly, ISO 17025 says something like, "Where practicable, auditors shall not audit their own work." Much better, to my mind.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#16
Andy, what you're saying makes perfect sense. :agree1:

Unfortunately, the standard is still pretty explicit: "Auditors shall not audit their own work." :confused: Surely in a small organization the one-man quality gang will end up verifying that procedures which he has written conform to the requirements of the standard. Such a situation would seem nonconforming, according to a strict interpretation. Or did I miss something?

Interestingly, ISO 17025 says something like, "Where practicable, auditors shall not audit their own work." Much better, to my mind.
I would agree with Andy, particularly in a smaller firm. Most auditors look at this situation with some practical logic.

The auditor is supposed to audit the process, the procedure is but a small part of that. It is not the writing of the procedure that is the subject of not auditing your own work, but the process itself. So an auditor who works in the Calibration Lab should not audit the calibration process, regardless of who wrote the procedure.

In a larger company with more resources, we might ask to see more independence.
 
C

CliffK

#17
I would agree with Andy, particularly in a smaller firm. Most auditors look at this situation with some practical logic.
I agree, too. I'm just confirming my suspicion that we are relying on the common sense of auditors rather than on the exact wording of the standard.
The auditor is supposed to audit the process, the procedure is but a small part of that. It is not the writing of the procedure that is the subject of not auditing your own work, but the process itself. So an auditor who works in the Calibration Lab should not audit the calibration process, regardless of who wrote the procedure.

In a larger company with more resources, we might ask to see more independence.
Agreed. That is also how I see it.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#18
9001:2000 is totally out of date and touch with reality when it comes to small business and auditor's not auditing their work.

In the document "SCOPE" it states the standard is applicable to any size organization and then 8.2.2 has this "auditing own work" junk. In a one person or two person or ten person business "auditing their own work" is probably more fact than the total independence of the auditor (which guarantee's nothing) will ever be.

The revision still has this dribble in it. I hate it from the perspective of my having been a small business owner who had to have a QMS.

GARBAGE!!!!!!

Impartiality, Objectivity Impartiality, Objectivity Impartiality, Objectivity
 
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