Auditing processes followed by employees placed on client's site


Starting to get Involved
Hi all,

I tried to find a response here, but haven't find one.
We have this situation:
- our company (C1) was bought by another one based on another country (C2), a while ago,
- we still have separate QMS and been ISO 9001:2008 certified separately,
- for ISO 9001:2015 certification, we will go also separately, with different registrars,
- C2 provide business services for a client (also ISO certified),
- because they (C2) are understaffed, they asked our branch/office to place some of our employees on client site,
- these employees are now working under client's QMS and follow those procedures, not C1, nor C2 QMS procedures,
- after a training period they came back home and start working remotely (offshore),
- still, these employees are C1 employees, they still send their timesheet to C1 managers for approval (well, they ask also C2 supervisor for approval),
- C1 QMS have no defined procedure for staffing,
- we are in the middle of C1 internal audit program and wonder how to proceed further

- besides creating a procedure for staffing, what other processes should be developed by C1 Quality team, to comply with the new ISO 9001:2015 requirements?
- how these employees could be audited by C1 auditors? What processes can be audited by these auditors? We cannot audit client's processes...

With many thanks and kind regards,
Maximics - a puzzled auditee

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
From what I understand, the C1 employees are performing work on behalf of C2 at a customer site.

If C1 scope of certification does not comprise staffing services, from an external audit perspective, they are not part of the CB audit. From an internal audit perspective, does C1 QMS scope include staffing services? If it doesn't, apparently you have to manage the change in the scope of the QMS, including the context of the organization and interested parties..

Remember one thing: we don't audit people; we audit processes and systems. If C1's QMS does not acknowledge the provision of staffing services, you don't have a process to verify against during your internal audit. For all practical purposes, those people are outwith of the scope of the QMS and, thus, outside the internal audit program, as I see it.
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Big Jim

Companies can be engaged in business activities that are outside of their scope of registration.

There is nothing to keep a company from helping another company with their internal audit. Actually, in the past it was a common practice.

I won't comment on if this particular application is a good business practice or not, but there is nothing in ISO 9001 that would preclude it from happening.


Starting to get Involved
Thank you Big Jim,

It is not about a company helping another with internal audit - it is about auditing an out of scope process, because staffing process is not even mentioned in our QMS. Therefore I questioned our Quality Manager about this particular audit, because I feel is not right.

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