Auditing the Packing Dept. - What is the Packer Required to Have Available?

barb butrym

Quite Involved in Discussions
#11
who does the job when the packer is out? what is their level of training/experience etc? the same?

do they both respond to the 'what if's' the same way?

if YES then no problem...if NO then what?
 
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M

M Greenaway

#12
Mike

I see no problem at all with what you say.

In the bad old days external auditors used to say 'but what if this guy is hit by a bus' - sure what if, but lets be realistic. I know we shouldnt just be reactive, but proactivity has its limits in reality.
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#13
I agree with Barb. There aren't too many "Cal Ripken's" out there who never miss a day of work. Be it a sick day(s), vacation, flooded basement, broken-down car, "hit by a bus", or whatever, there is a VERY high likelihood that your employee will not be there every workday of the year. If someone else can handle the job just as well as a backup via training, no problem (no written procedure needed), but if not, better have it written down.
 
M

Michael T

#14
Yep...

Agreed all around... if there is the possibility of a gap where someone who is untrained/undertrained to the process takes over - the procedure should be written down. That only makes good business sense...

I think Martin was alluding to... in the old days, everything had to be proceduralized in order to proactively be ready in that some-day possibility that Joe Packer came down with the sniffles and couldn't make it into work.

I think a great deal now has to do with how important the job/process is in the grand scheme of things. For example, Element 4.2 (Documentation Requirements) 4.2.1.d says: "documents needed by the organization to ensure the effective planning, operation and control of its processes"

That, to me, says that we are now able to determine what process we (not the auditors) think are important and establish the appropriate level of documentation based upon the impact of the process on the QMS, the customer and business operations.

Does this sound right or is this wishful thinking on my part as a way to pare down the volumes of procedures that has been written to comply with the 1994 standard?

Cheers!!!

Mike
 
#15
Different lyrics, same tune

I think we are all pretty much saying the same thing. Without knowing just what is being packed, and the competence of the person doing the packing, it is hard to say if a nonconformance exists. For example, let’s say the place in question is an egg factory. The packer places eggs in cartons and puts the cartons in a larger container. I’m not too certain either specifications or work instructions are necessary. (Remember, I’m using an over-simplified example). On the other hand, let’s say it is a manufacturer of closet organizer. Different products use a combination of the same parts. The packer must know what the product number is to know how many of what parts and what instruction booklet must be packed. Certain customers (stores that sell the product) want the product placed in boxes with the store brand on the packaging. Now, the packing is much more complex and specifications and instructions will undoubtedly be required.
 
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