Auditing the Task (Process) Elements - Visual Map Attached

W

WALLACE

#41
Task process approach is being used

I received a PM from a visitor to the Cove.
The contact mail informed me that the task element approach is what is being used at their facility. They have decided to use my visual as a teaching and information aid. The ultimate compliment I guess.
I have arranged a visit to their facility to experience and witness this approach in action.
I'll keep the group informed as to what I witness and experience.
Wallace
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
W

WALLACE

#42
Before this thread becomes redundant,
I would like to gain some more insight (For all at the Cove) into the use and application of the Task process elements, from the originator of this technique "Allan J Sayle".

Allan J,
can you contribute to this thread and, give us some practical applications and examples of uses of the Task element approach?
Wallace.
 
A

AllanJ

#43
WALLACE said:
Before this thread becomes redundant,
I would like to gain some more insight (For all at the Cove) into the use and application of the Task process elements, from the originator of this technique "Allan J Sayle".

Allan J,
can you contribute to this thread and, give us some practical applications and examples of uses of the Task element approach?
Wallace.
Thank you Wallace for the professional courtesy extended in recognising my work/ creation, "The Task Elements": I do hope the "Covers" and others will use them.

I will answer your question as follows:

How the Task Elements came to be developed has been explained elswhere, as you have referenced. I created them over 30 years ago, over a decade before I ever thought of becoming a consultant, because I needed a simple, logical tool to look at work activities ("tasks").

They have been used successfully by myself and many others around the world in a variety of business sectors ranging from food and pharamceuticals, through heavy engineering, banking and a number of service industries, automotive, information technology, contract manufacturing, computer manufacturing, oil, gas and other energy and so on.

Crucially they have been used for every internal process used by organizations: from customer interface (marketing, sales, inquiries, bidding, order acceptance etc) through product and process design, for all manner of purchasing activities including supply chain management, to manufacturing/ construction/ production, to delivery and so on. And "overhead" functions such as perconnel (HR), accounts receivable and payable, payroll, security and IT.

What I am particularly pleased about is the fact that many firms have been able to train all levels of staff in their application: especially so-called "shop floor" or "blue-collar" people. Their experience fed back to me is that they find the Task Elements easy to understand as they literally break down their task (process) into simple logical bits on which they can then concentrate. (In fact, your depiction of them, Wallace, which you recently sent to me, does provide a useful, simple guide.) This has enabled them to uncover all manner of opportunities for reducing costs, process time etc thereby making a considerable contribution to their business' improvement/ continuous improvement programs: I have received a lot of letters about the results obtained. Indeed, firms and individuals have found them consistent with and beneficial to their attempts at implementing "lean", JIT etc. And, cell organization becomes quite easy if they are used.


Once one has an understanding of the Task Elements, it then becomes apparent that each "element" requires its own system to deliver it to the workplace. Thus it is very easy to trace through an entire system for, say, controlling "items" from conception to end use and disposal in the users' hands. And this was my main application, when I developed them: I needed to find a way of performing an audit which would allow me to look at each task and system, logically and find bottlenecks, problems, opportunities an so forth. I tested them out, made a few minor adjustments and they have never let me down. Indeed, I have been able to offer constructive comment to any number of firms whose products and processes were unfamiliar to me because they gave me an easy framework for my questions.

I also found, as various "quality standards" arrived, managers and employees had difficulty grasping/ understanding the standards' old clauses and being able to apply them to their workplaces/ departments (ISO 9K was an especial culprit when it first appeared). The wording was in terms the quality profession might comprehend (its own lingua franca) but the everyday application seemed rather obscure to them. I found the Task Elements broke down the communication battles because I could say, for example, "Now let's deal with the equipment you use/ need...", then list each piece and deal with each one in turn. The operators would understand what was needed because I was then working in THEIR language and terms. (And, boy, did it not also reduce my own headaches of communication and understanding!)

The Task Elements were first written down at the behest/ request/ persuasion/ teasing and so forth of my old work colleagues - especially one such (Al Arretz) when I worked in GE's Zurich office, in their Nuclear Division, in the mid 70s. When I used to do audits, a lot of people wanted to attend and observe my methods.

As many of my past trainees and readers have remarked, they are plainly visible, now, in the latest incarnation of ISO 9K. It is most pleasing to know one has given a tool to one's profession that others have tried, tested and found useful.

I hope this response helps.
 
Q

qualitytrec

#44
I am feeling really dim right now. :bonk:
How can you be sure to audit to the standard AND have it be processes based not element based? The best I can figure how to do is check to the element then check the processes(and I am still having a bit of a time with the monitoring, measuring , and analysis part of this). So as easy as it may be for Wallace and Alan J and their associates I feel lost. Aside from the charts that are in this thread what are some other resources to help understand this concept a little better?

Mark
 
J

Jodi G

#45
I have a few great reference books that give points to look for in each element. I put a file together listing all of the areas I'm auditing, then if a particular element pertains to the area, I put the element number and question under the area.

The books are The ISO/TS 16949 Answer Book; How to Audit ISO 9001:2000 and The Automotive Internal Auditor Pocket Guide.

Hope this helps!
 
W

WALLACE

#46
You feel dim???

Markasmith said:
I am feeling really dim right now. :bonk:
How can you be sure to audit to the standard AND have it be processes based not element based? The best I can figure how to do is check to the element then check the processes(and I am still having a bit of a time with the monitoring, measuring , and analysis part of this). So as easy as it may be for Wallace and Alan J and their associates I feel lost. Aside from the charts that are in this thread what are some other resources to help understand this concept a little better?
Worry not Markasmith.
Allan J would be the man to address your interest, I'm really long winded when it comes to defining and explaining the Task process elements (TPE).
I will say this though, I look at the TPE out with the requirements of any standards, be it ISO or any other standard requirement or benchmark. Allan J's book Management audits can (I'm sure) be purchased at the ASQ web site www.asg.org
If it's semantics between the ISO standard language and the language of Allan J's task process elements, step back and take a second look at your understanding.
Wallace.
 
Q

qualitytrec

#47
Jodi and wallace,
Yes, I feel dim ( I am usually a bright and shining star :D but with this I am having a hard time figuring it out) I am used to elemental audits (are we in compliance to the standard) when a registrar comes in they are looking for compliance to the standard, it is their only guide apart from experience(experience sometimes gets them in trouble). And Wallace, if I am understanding you and others correctly we are supposed to get away from this type of auditing. Let me ask some questions here.
If we have to be in compliance with the standard, how do you prove it with out doing an elemental audit? I realize that we have to audit our systems, processes, and product also. But how do you not audit to the elements and be sure that you have met all the requirements?
I keep hearing that we are supposed to do process based audits but then I look at a what is available from the "authorities" such as the "Quality System Assessment Checklist-Checklist to ISO/TS 16949:2002" and guess what I see? Elemental auditing. I think we have to do both elemental and process audits. I hope I am wrong and come to see the light because this type of auditing induces a deep desire to sleep, but that is what I see. Can you show me where I am off in my reasoning, if indeed I am. (by the way. It may read like I am being arguementative but I am not intending it that way. I just do not understand.) This way you have presented in this thread seems to simplified and like there is the potential to miss some requirements that the ISO Kings have mandated.
Mark :confused:
 
Q

qualitytrec

#48
Oh, by the way, thanks for the book references I will see if I can get my hands on them. Maybe they will help me figure out what I am missing.
Mark :thanks:
 
W

WALLACE

#49
Markasmith,
Please don't be thrown by the title and communication of the task process elements visual and the former element approach to quality standards, there are absolutely no correlation between them at all.
Looking back at the element approach to quality standards, it's clear by the very nature of the element approach, it caused process thinking to be almost suppressed.
Here's a link http://elsmar.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2199&stc=1&thumb=1 for your viewing. I compiled this visual to communicate process in relation to system. This may assist you in seeing the bigger picture relating to the correlation between process and system.
The task elements of :
1 Person
2 Item
3 Equipment
4 Information
5 Service
Are a format that can be used to look at processes and determine if they are indeed acting in the best interest of your system.
Hope this helps
Wallace.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
B The task of Auditing Clause 7.3 Design & Development ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
Ajit Basrur GHTF (Global Harmonisation Task Force) - Guidelines for Regulatory Auditing ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 0
S ISO 9001:2015 Internal Auditing Internal Auditing 8
H Auditing Santa's workshop General Auditing Discussions 0
C List of MDSAP Auditing Organizations Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 1
A What are the pros and cons of using an audit software for internal auditing? General Auditing Discussions 7
cscalise Suggestions for MDR Auditing tools EU Medical Device Regulations 1
J Auditing of Support Function IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
D ISO 13485, FDA 21 CFR 820 and Auditing the Accounting Department ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
S Risk based internal auditing Internal Auditing 6
Randy Remote auditing (for disaster, disease, disturbance etc...) during the Neo Coronavirus Pandemic and Social Distancing Registrars and Notified Bodies 7
K ANVISA B-GMP Auditing requirements for Contract Manufacturers Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 1
F AS9100D Internal auditing requirements Internal Auditing 11
R Does any here use an internal auditing tool that works on different platforms? Internal Auditing 3
W Does anyone have an API Q2 checklist for internal auditing? Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 1
G Best Practices for IT auditing - Is a session-id necessary for a complete audit trail? IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 0
I Questions to ask when auditing for Organizational Leadership and Planning for the QMS? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
C CE marking for general IVD (self-certified) & ISO 13485 QMS requirements - auditing EU Medical Device Regulations 6
blackholequasar Internal Auditing Inspiration - Getting volunteers to perform internal audits. Internal Auditing 22
W Internal Auditing carried out by a 3rd party - Review of previous audits AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
tony s What is the automotive process approach for auditing? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
S Internal Auditing for API Spec Q1 - auditor qualification requirements Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 6
R I've been auditing for a CB for 18 years General Auditing Discussions 10
P Consultant Auditing Qualifications Requirements ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 23
E Informational Internal Audits - Wear multiple hats what can and can't I audit (so I'm not auditing my own work) Internal Auditing 149
M We still have not received our certificate due to a 'backlog' with our auditing body Registrars and Notified Bodies 25
N Online Internal Auditing Course for ISO 13485 - Suggestions ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 8
A Agenda for 8D audit on Supplier's side - Auditing Corrective Actions General Auditing Discussions 5
U Internal auditing - Company employees or contract second party Internal Auditing 10
J Recomended Values - Auditing process in a supplier IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 18
M Canada - Registrars that allow e-auditing for ISO 9001? Registrars and Notified Bodies 4
K Internal Auditing - Umbrella QMS and Multiple Standards Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 4
D Auditing Our Outsourced 2nd-3rd Party Internal Audit Company ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
supadrai Auditing Organization dragging their heels on issuing our MDSAP Surveillance Audit Confirmation Letter - everyone is nervous ... are we the only ones? Canada Medical Device Regulations 7
Ed Panek Supplier Auditing - No purchases from our key suppliers in the last 24 months ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
P Auditing "process validation" process 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 2
qualprod Effective Auditing advice needed ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 16
M Acceptance of remote auditing techniques - Can you help me with my research? General Auditing Discussions 0
GStough Auditing Against Criteria Unfamiliar to Auditee - Yea or Nay? General Auditing Discussions 11
qualprod Auditing Product and Services doubts ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
R Auditing support and management processes General Auditing Discussions 7
F It is acceptable moving remote locations staff to manufacturing plant for auditing? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
D MSDS / GHS Walk-through / Auditing Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 6
Pmarszal Supplier Auditing Services (Audit Needed?) General Auditing Discussions 4
S ISO 9001 Audit Observations - Transitioning my career into auditing Career and Occupation Discussions 16
G AS9101 Rev F - Worksheets for internal auditing AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 11
N API Q2 clause 6.2.2.1 Auditing Outsourced Suppliers Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 5
M Auditing processes followed by employees placed on client's site Internal Auditing 4
S ISO 13485:2016 and MDSAP internal auditing ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
M Auditing a Contractor in EMS and Non Conformity Report General Auditing Discussions 1

Similar threads

Top Bottom