Auditing the Task (Process) Elements - Visual Map Attached

Q

qualitytrec

#51
WALLACE said:
Post #31 within this thread may expand a little for you.
Wallace.
I am still not getting it. Let me see if I can get a hold on the books you and Jodi recomended and maybe that will help.
Thanks,
Mark
 
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W

WALLACE

#52
Markasmith,
I see by your profile that you have the designation of Quality manager.
Would you please (For the sake of clarity) expand on your profile and also, let us Covers know what services or products you are involved with?
This would be a great start. :confused:
Wallace.
 
Q

qualitytrec

#53
I am a quality manager for a small automotive (mostly) metal stamper. We are on our way toward ISO 9001:2000 registration. I added a little but there is not a lot of space on the profile page.
Does this help a little?
Mark
 
Q

qualitygoddess - 2010

#54
Think I Saw Something on Process Maps in Cove

WALLACE said:
In view of the interest in the task element approach map.
Would anyone at the cove be interested in developing a generic process audit template for distribution.
What about you Claes?
I'm game, if it's possible.
Wallace.
I thought I spotted something about company processes from C. Cochran in registered articles from either last month or August 2004.............Might be a good starting point for your idea.

I've been working on something with a flow diagram of work steps and the sub-processes listed under the work step, but it isn't ready yet. It would also not be generic, since it for a specific company. It's been fun to work on, I just haven't had a lot of time! I was thinking that I could use the flow diagram to set up my QMS audit plan.

--Jodi
 
A

AllanJ

#55
WALLACE said:
Worry not Markasmith.
Allan J would be the man to address your interest, I'm really long winded when it comes to defining and explaining the Task process elements (TPE).
I will say this though, I look at the TPE out with the requirements of any standards, be it ISO or any other standard requirement or benchmark. Allan J's book Management audits can (I'm sure) be purchased at the ASQ web site www.asg.org
If it's semantics between the ISO standard language and the language of Allan J's task process elements, step back and take a second look at your understanding.
Wallace.
Thank you Wallace for the reference and courtesy shown concerning my work on the Task Elements which was done in the early 1970s, as I believe I have explained earlier on the Cove.

By way of a correction, if anyone wants the book "Management Audits", the easiest source is "Quality Council of Indiana" (not the ASQ) I think their web is QCI.com. Though people do get the book from me, I am not a bookstore per se and cannot handle credit cards. Amazon and various other web stores are not supplied with my book by the publisher so it is not available from there as a new copy.

Though some on the Cove may be confused about the Task Elements, in fact all who have been on one of my training courses or carefully read about them in one of my books have found them easy to apply. The difference between the Task Element approach and the old Q Standard approach (of elements) is that in my approach (now generally called the "process approach") one looks at what is happening at the workplace and breaks it into constituent elements (listed by Wallace - who, incidentally, I have never yet had the pleasure of meeting). One then simply considers what is required to ensure that particular "element of the task" will be complete, correct for the job. Indeed, each of the elements has a simple set of sub-elements to consider, which are easily remembered. Thus, for a "Person" one would consider what training is required; what would make the person competent for the task; what might motivate/ demotivate the person; what type of identification would be used to be able to trace work to the person; and what attributes are reuired for the work (e.g. good eyesight, good hearing, honesty and so forth.)

Since the Task Elements are common to all types oif work, an auditor can soon audit all manner of "processes" as he/ she has a simple, logical way of looking at what is required. The Task Element can also be used for process planning. That is done by simply considering each element and its sub-elements and organizing to make sure they "arrive" at the workplace before the actual work starts. And, as each Task Element requires its own system to ensure it will be ready for the workplace, one can easily look through "systems". As an example, an assembly job would require various "ITEMS", that is materials, parts, components etc for the assembly. One can quickly trace through the system that conceives, designs, buys, makes and delivers any "item" to the assembly workplace. That also allows one to look at how a system might be ineffective, might be susceptible of improvement (very useful in Six Sigma etc).

In the old "Elemental" approach, the quality standards wrote in generalities that one was expected to interpret for whatever one was auditing or doing. It caused arguments and misunderstandings, especially as ordinary process owners often could not understand how to apply, say, Mil Q 9858A or CSA Z 299.1, or or BS 5750, or ASME VIII at their workplace. That was not especially conducive to effective "prcess control", in the sense we would use it today. It was called elemental since each standard consisted of a number of "prescriptive" clauses - commonly referred to as "elements of the standard. However, ordinary people do not work according to elements of a standard, but they do more easily comprehend "elements of their work process". THe Task Elements and their sub-elements are phrased in simple terms. As an example: a process owner will understand that "ITEMS" must be in the correct "CONDITION", that "EQUIPMENT" must have the right "CAPABILITY" to do the job. And so on.

When I formulated the Task Elements, I experimented with them on a number of audits etc first. I found ordinary ("blue-collar") people could rapidly and easily relate to them such that a meaningful dialogue occurred as well as a more efficient audit. Moreover, as the communications were vastly improved, it got their interest and involvement. It was easier to get their buy-in to corrective action and process improvement as I was talking "their language". For me, that was the acid test and I have used them ever since.

Though, as I explained in another thread, there was enormous resistance from various bodies, not least the "establishment" when ISO 9K and registration etc appeared years later on the scene, I guess a critical mass of about 10000 course/ seminar delegates and tens of thousands of people who bought my books and used the "Task Elements" had their effect. Whatever happened, it is nice to have made a contribution to one's profession's body of knowledge.

I do not provide training courses on a public basis except on very rare occasions: the last was in 1999. However, the ASQ has approached me to present one more such course next year in St Louis and we are presently in discussions about that possibility.
 
W

WALLACE

#56
Markasmith said:
I am a quality manager for a small automotive (mostly) metal stamper. We are on our way toward ISO 9001:2000 registration. I added a little but there is not a lot of space on the profile page.
Does this help a little?
Mark
Thanks Markasmith,
It's always helpful to get a larger profile, when getting to know a Cover. Has Allan J's explanation enlightened you any? As Allan J says, (now generally called the "process approach"). I may get the chance to make the visual map of the Task Process Elements more visually dynamic and appealing, with Allan J's permission.
Markasmith, if you need the Task process element visual and accompanying visual, I would be pleased to convert them to resized (Generally 22" x 35") PDF files for large format printing purposes. The large format printing availability, may be an ideal visual for sharing and getting the so called big picture perspective.
Wallace.
 
M

MikeL

#57
3 Pronged Assault

I am just about to help one of my automotive clients do their internal audit leading up to certification to TS.

We have two teams doing the "classic" element based audit. They will be looking at "management" and "support" processes like training, corrective action, business planning, doc control and so on.

There are three teams doing each of our three manufacturing areas and we are doing the audit by following the process flow looking at items like scheduling, maintenance, work instructions, PCP's, testing, packaging, ID's & Traceability. There will probably be overlap with the other audit - training, calibration.

Product Audits will be done by the same teams.

When we did previous audits we spent most of the time pouring over documents and records, stuck in offfices with managers. Ocasionally you would go out into the factory looking for a gauge or checking a work instruction.

The process approach will be quite different.

Thanks for the good posts and helpful charts.
 
W

WALLACE

#58
MikeL said:
We have two teams doing the "classic" element based audit. They will be looking at "management" and "support" processes like training, corrective action, business planning, doc control and so on. The process approach will be quite different.
.

Why did you use the element approach and, what value did this approach give to your auditing process in relation to TS?
Did you also use a process approach, and if so, what was your primary focus?
Wallace
 
W

WALLACE

#59
Audit form

MikeL,
Attached for your perusal is, an audit form that is closely aligned to the task process elements (The process approach).
It was created solely for internal type audits and, I have made the leading questions as generic as possible, hoping they can be applied across an organizations internal business and functional departments.
Hope this is of help.
Wallace.
 

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M

MikeL

#60
Process Audit

Thanks for the process checklist.

We are using a longer winded one that starts from PPAP which we got from one of our clients.

I like the simplicity of the questions on your form.
 
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