Auditing to ISO 9001:2008 - How do we qualify ourselves?

[goofygiggler]

I had to laugh over the "training" being offered to the updated standard after having reviewed it and recognizing the fact that NOTHING CHANGED!
It was an 'amendment' that makes no nevermind from 2000 to 2008.
The committe could have done us all some justice by actually making some changes to the standard that were truly needed... guess we'll have to wait another 7 years
P.S. You should not need training to understand word jumbling

 

[Helmut Jilling]

I have been told by a CB that 1 additional day will be required for the transition. Well I never meant it the way you understood it.

In fact, the CB talked about a table which lists the "minimum" number of audit man-days based on the organization's headcount and indicated clearly that these numbers have to be strictly adhered to.

I agree with Randy, Sidney, AndyN, etc.... the registrars I work with are not imposing any extra time, which is also consistent with the statements made from ISO. There are no "new" requirements that should take any additional time.

Maybe that auditor intends to read a copy of the standard during your audit time...to see if there are any changes...

 

[howste]

One CB I audit for just sent me a checklist to use to verify that the ISO 9001:2008 requirements are being met. There will be no additional time for the transition audit though.

 

[AndyN]

I had to laugh over the "training" being offered to the updated standard after having reviewed it and recognizing the fact that NOTHING CHANGED!
It was an 'amendment' that makes no nevermind from 2000 to 2008.
The committe could have done us all some justice by actually making some changes to the standard that were truly needed... guess we'll have to wait another 7 years
P.S. You should not need training to understand word jumbling

Maybe in a slowing economy, with low attendance at instructor led courses, some providers have had to be creative with their course offerings........

 

[John Mathews]

I do agree with Neelu.
Thanks
John

Now that 2008 version is to be implemented, auditors need to qualify themselves for 2008 version. Trainers have already come out with training packages, most of them being 1-day training modules. But both ISO and IAF have made it clear that 2008 version does not have anything new except that this version adds clarity to quite a few clauses of the 2000 version; apparently indicatng that auditors may not require any specific training but would require to familiarise themselves with 2008 verion. IRCA has recommended a 2h CPD requirement to qualify against the 2008 version. I feel that auditors and organizations should'nt fall prey to trainer vultures! What do you say?

 

[amanbhai]

I myself have attended a one day training course on new requirements with little refresher of ISO 9000; QMS - fundamentals and vocabulary.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Andy,

"audit evidence indicates that that a number of gauges are no longer available at a maching center and parts aren't being gauged according to the control plan, what requirement of ISO 9001 is being affected here?"

Take a look at clause 7.1. There always is a relevant clause, more than one maybe. but there is always one that will guide the corrective action team the best.

I agree, and am quite comfortable with internal auditors citing clauses in the standard. However, I wanted to point out that it is also proper to cite nonconformities against passages from the company's procedures or work instructions, if they prefer.

 

[JaneB]

And, to be fair, it can't be answered - with any clarity - in such a forum. It would be entirely inappropriate to discuss your specific organization and tell you what might be the number of auditor days. If it were as simple, ANAB could publish the table and you'd already know.

Since the number of days, drives the cost, are you looking for the lowest cost CB? If you are good luck with your search! The few CB's that sell on price alone are normally those whose clients post about here taking 6 months to issue a certificate!

Hemanta, I strongly agree with what is said here - all my experience matches and supports it.

Going for the absolutely cheapest and lowest cost CB has never in my considerable experience been a good 'strategy'. Ever. In fact, very far from it.

On those (fortunately very few) occasions when I've had the unfortunate experience of being present at an audit done by a 'cheap-as-chips-and-lower-price-than-anyone' CB, it's been a horrible experience all around, not least for the poor clients on whom it was inflicted.

These icons probably sum it up:
:truce:


Valuable? No, not for them.

Lowest cost CB?

Well, if you like beating your head against brick walls, and if you like organising your system in whatever way the auditor insists that you should have it to suit them and make it easy and quick to audit and you don't expect to get anything from it except a lot of frustration but a Certificate... go right ahead. But don't expect to get the benefits of a quality system either.

PS: Recent re-audits and certification audits for my clients took no 'extra' time at all. But that was with competent auditors from reputable CBs.