Auditor found Form with Identical Contents but different Format - is this an NC?

Sidney Vianna

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#21
Re: Audit found Form with Identical Contents but different Format - is this an NC?

:topic:
Is filing for an appeal not expensive?
With most CB's, there are no charges for appealing a nonconformity. I know at least one who would charge clients for review an appeal. Once again, some registrants sign up with a CB without paying attention to issues such as this. So, sometimes, the "cheapest" solution becomes "expensive".
 
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Sidney Vianna

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#22
Re: Audit found Form with Identical Contents but different Format - is this an NC?

my modest comment:
it may depend in the firm business, some fields stress over documents control (eg. pharma, medical etc).
Zancky, you are correct: depending on the nature of the business, forms might be much more tightly controlled. in addition to the fields you mentioned, nuclear, aerospace, even financial settings might have a much more tightly controlled form management system.
the second comment is depends on the nature of the form: a Certificate of conformance, or a certificate of calibration of a laboratory for an external customer with wrong revision may be a big issue; if the wrong form was used to buy paper for the printer, well I do not spend a lot of time.
Correct again, but, please note, although we are asked to opine on some situations without enough details from time to time, in this specific case, we were told the following by the OP:
Form was purely an informational survey and not product/performance related.
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
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#23
Re: Audit found Form with Identical Contents but different Format - is this an NC?

:frust: Seriously? This is the reason that many in management abhor standards and auditors. WHERE is the value-add? HOW in H&@$ does this help any company make a quality product, deliver it a timely manner or even make a profit?
3. Data was good and no risk was exposed. Form was purely an informational survey and not product/performance related.
And I'm sorry but all of the pontificating about what might happen if an operator should think that 'anything' goes is just chicken little fear of something that hasn't yet happened. Last time I heard, findings should only be made for ACTUAL events and not potential events otherwise we would all stay in bed for fear of death by meteor, road rage, alligator attack etc...
 
G

goodnede

#24
Re: Audit found Form with Identical Contents but different Format - is this an NC?

Since this thread is about forms and the control of them I would like to make a comment/ask a question. We were recently told by a couple of AS9110 third party auditors that if we used a form to show compliance to a requirement, internal or to the standard, it had to be a controlled form. Example, my internal audit procedure states that a schedule is developed, I do have a schedule but it wasn't identified with a number, revision and date like our "controlled" forms are...needless to say it is now. Is this an accurate interpretation? I didn't exactly agree that my schedule, that no one else ever uses had to be a controlled form. I suppose it doesn't matter now cause my boss made me "control" it I was just curious what some of you think about this situation.
 
H

Hectorhe

#25
During an audit, two versions of the same form are found. All questions and content are identical; however, the format is different. Is this a non-compliance? major? minor? observation? The issue resulted from a form format that existed prior to addition of revision number and date was added was used and completed; therefore, a controlled record was created. The annotated form questions and content are identical to the form without date/version footer.

I would appreciate feedback.
i have some questions:
1. what is the content of the form?
2. Do you have a procedure about the form updated?
3. how do you issue the form format? any record?
4. Any review process about the new format?
 
S

ssz102

#26
does your procedure are define for the criteria of document or form revision?

the improtant is that what is reason to cause current situation? no personal don't know this form had changed or didn't consideration call in old form during change the revision of form?

i think that's situation should be judge a observation
 

QATN11

Involved In Discussions
#27
In this case, the original template for the form was corrupted. A previous form that had been filled out was used as a guide. The person drafting the new template used a different font and some of the spacing of lines was different. Also, the original form used check boxes and the new form had a underscore line where a check mark or "X" could be written in to indicate the appropriate response. Again, content was the same.

NOTE: This post was mistakenly "Reported" and the "Reason" is above. I have copied it from the Report thread to where I think it belongs, or was intended. Marc
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#28
It would be tempting to write a nonconformity to this, but only if the appearance is so different that the user would likely be confused or think he had the wrong document.

But let us "stick to the shalls." The standard is now talking about documented information. Information and format are not the same thing. Therefore, if a registrar were to write a nonconformance for this, I would support disputing it.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#29
Interesting. If you have a document control procedure/process or whatever, what does it say or require when it comes to forms.

You're leaving a bit out, are both documents intended to be used for the same purpose?
 
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