Auditor had no findings for last few years - Fed up with the whole thing...

G

GoKats78

#51
Another audit....this time a Minor....

8 people - 5 departments - plant wide - no evidence of training to the job they are performing.
 
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S

somerqc

#52
As I posted earlier in this thread (1st page I think), we had a re-reg audit coming up. Well, it arrived and we did well. However, we did have 8 "Areas of Concern" or in old terminology - minors. He was very impressed with our system overall, but, his findings were related to trying to get us to "the next level" of our system.

Basically, our system is in place - we have excellent examples of preventative and corrective actions etc. But, he found gaps that MAY lead to issues in the future or MAY prevent us for getting to the next level.

He basically told us that as our system matures they look more intensely at the system and expect more out of the system. This doesn't mean more "Majors" but we can expect more Minors and OFI's to show us where there are gaps in our system or areas where we may be missed something during an improvement effort.

I believe it was a very "value added" audit. If everyone experienced what I experience with this auditor the ISO registration world would have a very different flavour to it.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#53
Another audit....this time a Minor....

8 people - 5 departments - plant wide - no evidence of training to the job they are performing.
The requirement is actually to whether records of competency were determined, more so than records of training. But, wow, that is only a minor, huh?
 
D

dhghan

#54
I was in the same situation before. Even had to create document to show that the company followed:biglaugh: procedures. I make up my mind to change the company system and finally got fire but that is my intention. I was happy.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#55
Buy the company, then you can do what you want.




Quality and improvement is a self motiviated activity. We engage in this activity to obtain and keep customers. The real measurement of your success or failure is how your customers feel and how long they stay with you. The ISO certificate is just a piece of paper.

From this persepective, the 3rd party audit is just a necessary evil. We have not found it very useful. I would rather pay that kind of money for an actual advisor to help us get better. I wouldin't be so quick to "fault" your managment.

In fact, some audits have damaged the credibility of our system to our employees. I like to put non-conformances into substantive and non-substantive. When you get too many non-substantive non-conformances the employees roll their eyes. For example, we had a "non-conformance" several years ago because our receiving department was using a non-calibrated steel rule to check the width of incomming slit steel. It was supposed to be just an "eyeball" check, no precision needed. What made it funny was the way the employee checked was to use his "fatty" fingers to support the rule at the other end to take his measurement -- being off an 1/8 inch was completely irrelevant. Unfortunately there was no talking to the auditor. So here we are sitting around trying to figure out a "corrective action" for something that had never been a problem in the 50+ years prior. Our employees have never viewed the system the same since.
 
J

JaneB

#56
As I posted earlier in this thread (1st page I think), we had a re-reg audit coming up. Well, it arrived and we did well. However, we did have 8 "Areas of Concern" or in old terminology - minors. He was very impressed with our system overall, but, his findings were related to trying to get us to "the next level" of our system.

Basically, our system is in place - we have excellent examples of preventative and corrective actions etc. But, he found gaps that MAY lead to issues in the future or MAY prevent us for getting to the next level.

He basically told us that as our system matures they look more intensely at the system and expect more out of the system. This doesn't mean more "Majors" but we can expect more Minors and OFI's to show us where there are gaps in our system or areas where we may be missed something during an improvement effort.

I believe it was a very "value added" audit. If everyone experienced what I experience with this auditor the ISO registration world would have a very different flavour to it.
Yup, that's a value-add audit from a good auditor. How it's supposed to be and what one has a right to expect. If it's not being delivered, I hunt for a better auditor and / or CB.
 
M

mjbupp

#57
The challenge I've come across is that local management believes all is well based on the registrar finding nothing. Then, when internal auditors find the problems they are trivialized because "the expert" found nothing wrong when he looked at our system.

Our previous auditor had no findings in 3 years. Corporate made us switch to a new registrar due to a company-wide contract. The new auditor has had 19 minors in two visits. That was eye-opening for management. Plus, I got to say "I told you so"!
 
J

JaneB

#58
local management believes all is well based on the registrar finding nothing. Then, when internal auditors find the problems they are trivialized because "the expert" found nothing wrong when he looked at our system.
"Local management" have a lot to learn in that case. And really don't understand the roles of each party, nor their part and responsibilities. Definitely a challenge.
 
S

somerqc

#59
I don't know how much interaction you have with the auditor; however, if the auditor finds something that is related to an existing open CAR I ask him to note this during de-brief meeting or the closing meeting.

Why? In my case, it gives "weight" to findings from internal audits and shows that the internal audits are effective in finding weaknesses or areas of improvement in our system.
 
#60
"Local management" have a lot to learn in that case. And really don't understand the roles of each party, nor their part and responsibilities. Definitely a challenge.
It's an almost bizarre statement to make, isn't it - "We're good because someone (the CB auditor) from outside says we are"! What happened to the use of data - product, process and customer to tell the business if they're any good?
 
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