Auditor Remorse for not issuing an NCR

wooden nickle

Involved In Discussions
Recently we were subjected to our annual surveillance audit that actually turned out quite well, and we were quite proud of the outcome, two minors, celebrate!!! However two days later we received via email another minor finding. Seems that the LEAD AUDITOR thought about another situation, that wasn’t even brought up as an OFI, (and here I thought OFIs were no longer allowed, something to do with a consulting issue?), The auditor was kind enough though to state that if we could prove that our processes are proper she would destroy the Nonconformity Report. Well she wasconvinced on the day she was here and we still got the NCR. :deadhorse:
 

normzone

Trusted Information Resource
That's odd. I've seen two people get mailed traffic tickets after the officer chose not to write one on the scene. I didn't know you could do that, and I'd be embarrassed to.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
Technically, the "final" audit results should be presented during the closing meeting and there should be no unpleasant surprises, as in this case. From time to time, based on extenuating circumstances, the auditor might "confirm" the validity of a nonconformity, after the audit is finished, based on further review of criteria and provided evidence, as well as having a chance to confer about the situation with another person, such as the CB Technical Manager.

Nevertheless, in my experience, more important than the timing for the issuance of the nonconformity, is it's validity. Apparently the OP is not convinced that the nonconformity is justified. If that is the case, never forget of the appeal process.
 

WCHorn

Rubber, Too Glamorous?
Trusted Information Resource
I agree with Sidney that the timing is not the important thing. If the NCR is accurate, why not just fix the perceived nonconformance? You'll have to deal with the problem the next time the auditor visits, regardless.

If it isn't a nonconformance, provide the information requested and the auditor will cancel the NCR. If that doesn't help, appeal.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
If it is not a non conformance at the conference table, it's not a non conformance on the plane. Obviously it was borderline at best. Company should have the benefit of the doubt. They shouldn't be able to keep coming back and say, "oh wait, add this." At some point is has to be over. There is nothing more frustrating than "after the fact" issues when you have no ability to make your case.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
Load of garbage, when we go into the closing meeting we give the final report (completed before the meeting) that contains everything...EVERYTHING!

There's no coming back after the delivering the report or 2 days later or after an auditor thinks.

It's a crock
 
B

BoardGuy

Just inform the auditor that as the client of the audit you will not accept nonconformity findings that were not presented at the closing meeting in accordance with ISO 17021-1.

If there is push back than asked for CB’s appeal process procedure which they are required to supply, again in accordance with ISO 17021-1, and then make the formal request to have the nonconformity withdrawn.
 

normzone

Trusted Information Resource
" as the client of the audit you will not accept nonconformity findings that were not presented at the closing meeting in accordance with ISO 17021-1"

I like that response :applause: I'm not conversant with that reference though.
 
B

BoardGuy

ISO/IEC 17021-1, Conformity assessment -- Requirements for bodies providing audit and certification of management systems -- Part 1: Requirements

ISO Summary: ISO/IEC 17021-1:2015 contains principles and requirements for the competence, consistency and impartiality of bodies providing audit and certification of all types of management systems.
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Project Man

Involved In Discussions
First, If what they're bringing up is clearly legit then just deal with it. That being said, the lead auditor is clearly operating outside the requirements in 17021-1.
I will paraphrase a few sections of 17021-1:2015(E) that you should reference in your response to the auditor.
9.4.6 - The audit team has to agree on the audit conclusions and follow-up actions. If there were other auditors then he has to get them on board before he presents it to you.
9.4.7 - this is were the standard clearly outlines the closing meeting. The audit conclusions and certificate recommendations are presented. It also says that ANY nonconformities SHALL be presented at the closing meeting.
 
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