Auditor wants me to get rid of 'Satisfaction' from QM - Can't get no... satisfaction

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#21
Re: Auditor wants me to get rid of 'Satisfaction' from QM - Can't get no... satisfact

I want to thank everybody for all the great advice. You people are all so wonderful. I wanted to clarify that I do like my auditor. I know that is irrelevant, but I just thought I would mention it.

After assimilating all the great input about including satisfaction, I have decided to limit the scope to Feedback only, using the info to gauge whether our product is safe and effective.

I wont have much of a chance to be active on this thread until after my Stage 1 assessment in a couple weeks, as I have a lot to prepare between now and then. Thanks again to everyone!
Please let us know how the Stage 1 went.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
S

Soon Loy

#22
Re: Auditor wants me to get rid of 'Satisfaction' from QM - Can't get no... satisfact

I do find the situation rather odd since auditors are not allowed to volunteer giving advice but rather focus on performing an impartial and fair assessment of the system.

No systems out there would survive if not supported by sound and clear business objectives. Clearly, the word Customer Satisfaction does not make the product any less inferior or give a sense of product superiority of some sort.

Perhaps the "statement" was done with haste but generally such a minor issue can be resolved with a frank discourse. You have a right to appeal to the CB if your are not satisfied with the Auditor and I had done that before. He never came back:cool:
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#23
Love is in the air...

I wanted to clarify that I do like my auditor.
Somebody should study this phenomenom. It might be analagous to Wikipedia reference-linkStockholm syndrome. Some auditors are arrogant, unreasonably authoritative, subject the registrant to unecessary stress, etc...but somehow the auditee still feels connected with the auditor.

PS Not saying this is the case here, but the phenomenom does happen....Maybe we should call it the Geneva syndrome, alluding to the ISO headquarters location.:tg:
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#24
Re: Auditor wants me to get rid of 'Satisfaction' from QM - Can't get no... satisfact

Welcome to The Cove!

Such good responses so far.

My hackles go up whenever a registrar says something like "I want" or "You should" because consulting is a no-no. But, they do it anyway, some more carefully than others. When it's done carefully it takes a form like "I once saw it done XYZ way."

The tricky thing about customer satisfaction is finding out you've got it. What does it mean? A headache goes away? The patient doesn't get an infection or die? When we supply medical product, it can be very difficult to know how satisfied our customers are and why. Lawsuits indicate dissatisfaction...:notme: but they aren't considered a satisfactory measure (no pun intended).

Measuring is the tricky part. I'm an internal auditor so I can consult... :lol: my advice is to be careful what you declare. Use references to customer satisfaction when you can confidently show you know what that satisfaction is, why it is what it is, and what you're doing about it. Without these things, IMO customer satiusfaction is an idea, or a slogan.
:2cents:
 
R

Roland Cooke

#25
Re: Auditor wants me to get rid of 'Satisfaction' from QM - Can't get no... satisfact

I do find the situation rather odd since auditors are not allowed to volunteer giving advice but rather focus on performing an impartial and fair assessment of the system.
This is simply not the case. Auditors are not allowed to consult, that is a far cry from providing guidance and advice where appropriate.

At the very least, registrars offer "observations" or "opportunities for improvement" etc.
 
#26
Re: Auditor wants me to get rid of 'Satisfaction' from QM - Can't get no... satisfact

This is simply not the case. Auditors are not allowed to consult, that is a far cry from providing guidance and advice where appropriate.

At the very least, registrars offer "observations" or "opportunities for improvement" etc.
However, this was a 'pre-assessment' and the rules about what's said etc. during that time are a little different, aren't they.............?????:notme:
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#27
Re: Auditor wants me to get rid of 'Satisfaction' from QM - Can't get no... satisfact

However, this was a 'pre-assessment' and the rules about what's said etc. during that time are a little different, aren't they.............?????:notme:
In what way? The conflict of interest issue still applies in a pre-assessment, even though a pre-assessment might not be part of the actual certification cycle.
 
#28
Re: Auditor wants me to get rid of 'Satisfaction' from QM - Can't get no... satisfact

In what way? The conflict of interest issue still applies in a pre-assessment, even though a pre-assessment might not be part of the actual certification cycle.
Sid, it's been my experience that assessors made (verbal) comments (during a pre-assessment) which, if it were a 'stage 2' wouldn't have been made. Hence my :notme:

Maybe I should have put 'rules' instead.......;)
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#29
Re: Auditor wants me to get rid of 'Satisfaction' from QM - Can't get no... satisfact

Sid, it's been my experience that assessors made (verbal) comments (during a pre-assessment) which, if it were a 'stage 2' wouldn't have been made.
What you are inferring is a clear violation of ISO 17021 paragraph 5.2.7.
 
#30
Re: Auditor wants me to get rid of 'Satisfaction' from QM - Can't get no... satisfact

What you are inferring is a clear violation of ISO 17021 paragraph 5.2.7.
Yup, what I was saying clearly does that, now. I would add that, since 17021 is relatively new to the 'scene', my comments pre-date it.......

And 17021 requirements not-with-standing, isn't the OP a clear indication that 'throw away comment' are still made?
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
L Quality Manager wants Internal Auditor to softgrade the findings - What shall I do? Internal Auditing 23
E Auditor wants to review our OHSAS 18001 Implementation Programme Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 5
I Control of a Harness Board - Our auditor wants the engineer to Control Manufacturing and Related Processes 18
S New Auditor wants Mould tool repair bill included in Cost of Poor Quality! IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 18
J Internal Process Auditing - Auditor Unhappy - Wants Layered Process Audits Process Audits and Layered Process Audits 13
A How do you Measure Operator Motivation / Morale? Our Auditor wants Documentation IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 39
H Document Revision Service? Auditor wants a service for document revision/renewal ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
R Auditor wants to know where our calibration procedure came from - TS16949 General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 14
L % Uncertainty Budgets - Auditor wants to see my uncertainty budget represented as a % Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 5
Jerry Eldred Calibration Methods - Auditor wants federal or international calibration procedures? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 33
G Auditor wants our Gage R&R Procedures to address Linearity, Accuracy and Stability Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 22
J IATF 16949 Internal Audit question - Auditor's responsibility Internal Auditing 6
W Redacting Info Before Giving to Auditor ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
T Quality auditor legal right to see Board meeting minutes ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
V Certified Auditor - Need of additional certification specific to industry ( GMPs) ASQ vs ECA vs others Professional Certifications and Degrees 1
V Internal Auditor Competency KPI IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
R American Petroleum Institute - Becoming an API Auditor Professional Certifications and Degrees 2
B Lowest cost way to pass Lead Auditor exam ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
B Internal Auditor Competency - Product Auditors Internal Auditing 9
U Internal Auditor not trained but done Audit for some process Nonconformance and Corrective Action 5
Z Auditor Findings ISO 14001:2015 vs. 45001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
B IATF16949 audit requirement - Auditor request UCL and LCL must be show Xbar-R, IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
A Becoming an ISO27001 3rd Party Auditor Career and Occupation Discussions 4
L ASQ's Biomedical Auditor Course Test ASQ - American Society for Quality 1
M Tips on preparing for IATF 16949 Internal Lead Auditor exam Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
G Same parts but new customer - What will the auditor ask me? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
Gun46 ISO 9001 : 2015 Lead Auditor Exam General Auditing Discussions 16
K %GRR was between 10-30% so we have to have a "backup plan" per auditor IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
S ISO 13485 Lead Auditor - Debate between our Quality Team and Regulatory Auditor - Internal Auditor Training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 17
R ISO 45001 Lead Auditor Exam paper Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
B Internal and external auditor competency to CSR's IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 20
A Our auditor told if we didn't have a patent we would have to do a validation or verification ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
W Certification for IATF Lead Auditor will expire in 2020 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
D Impartiality of Internal Auditor ISO 9001/13485 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
Ed Panek Auditor driving us nuts - ESD requirements ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 23
A OHSAS 18001 external auditor finding personal interpretation? Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 5
S IRCA Lead Auditor training and Exam tips Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 5
L ASQ CBA biomedical auditor - CBA primer material is enough to study? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
B VDA 6.3 Qualification as Process Auditor training course and exam VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 0
F ISO 21001 Educational Organizations Management - How to become an auditor Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 1
J Getting training either from ASQ or from SAI Global - ISO 9001 Lead Auditor training Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
P ASQ Certified Biomedical Auditor (CBA) Certification Preparation 2019 ASQ - American Society for Quality 3
M Medical Device Design Control Auditor Recommentations General Auditing Discussions 19
G Third party auditor mentions no grace period for calibration Calibration Frequency (Interval) 22
D Where (in US) can I get the VDA Auditor Edition book? VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 3
S AIAG CQI Auditor Qualification and 3rd Party Certification Requirements General Auditing Discussions 2
M IATF 16949 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency - Trainer's competency Internal Auditing 7
C Recommendations for UK-based ISO 13485 internal auditor training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
Sidney Vianna AS9100 News July 2019 AAQG/RMC CB Auditor Workshop - Presentation Materials AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 0
D Scope of Facility - Our auditor asked us last week for our "Scope of the Facility" AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 12

Similar threads

Top Bottom